My boss essentially warned me for racial insensitivity - aibu?

[Sakalibre]

Firstly, my maternal grandparents were born in Morroco and my paternal grandparents were born in India.

I'm in my 2nd year of a grad scheme (financial services).

Last week, we were given a presentation which addressed systematic racism in relation to the BLM movement.

I am the only female in my team of 15 and the only person under 30 so have a unique perspective.

At the end of the presentation, I very sensitively and tactfully stated I personally do not like being viewed as a victim purely based on the colour of my skin. I tried to say this in a constructive way that some non-white people could take offence to some of the things that had been stated in the presentation. I emphasised this was just an opinion

Anyway, I had a 1 to 1 meeting with my line manager following this presentation and I was given what can only be described as a very stern telling off. I tried to explain my position but he was having none of it. In the end, I actually apologised to him. Which I regret now.

Over the weekend I've given it all a lot of thought. Why should my feelings be discounted? Why shut down the conversation?

WIBU? Should I go over this again with my boss tomorrow?

not really - i remember being a 19 year old feminist full of vim and vigour and jumping on every single sexist shit thing that happened (and i was in the army so it was constant) was a) exhausting and b) self-defeating.

And i get it when you're young and you feel as though you have a contribution to make and people talk over you it is also exhausting. So you have to develop a strategy. I think it is really really REALLY telling that OPs dad who presumably knows her infinitely better than us told her to pick her battles.

OP it's obviously eating at you. So have you worked out exactly what it is you want to say to your boss? do you want to escalate via HR or the people who made the presentation? is your feeling that the presentation itself was just lip-service and a fig-leaf and that your organisation has a racism problem? Or do you think that your manager was feeling defensive because he realised that even though there was a BAME person who had developed the presentation, they hadn't taken all possible viewpoints into account and that when you objected he realised they had been wrong on some points?

What do you want the outcome of this to be? Do you want to take over responsibility for diversity training? Is that a niche/corner you want to be plonked in?

Has your manager spoken to you today? how has the atmosphere been generally? Are you ok?

Sorry - but you are young and you are inexperienced and there are people here among the hundreds of replies, who do want to help you.

What I mean really is - where was the focus on white people or non white people?

The focus was entirely on non-white people. A lot of stats were presented seemingly to show on the whole (that was said A LOT) non-whites are poorer, less likely to be educated/own homes and are paid lower salaries because of systemic racism.

Ironically to counter this we were encouraged "to speak out"

Oh for goodness sake, you're omitting the key information.
What was the context of the narrative? In what way was the victimology presented which was offensive to you personally? Were you referred to? Did your boss tell you you are a victim? Were you made an example of to make a point?
Did your boss dismiss your lived experiences like many on this thread keep claiming he did? Did anyone tell you how to think and feel?
I do think the way he behaved was sexist, though. I doubt somehow he'd have been aggressive towards a male member of the team.

The focus was entirely on non-white people. A lot of stats were presented seemingly to show on the whole (that was said A LOT) non-whites are poorer, less likely to be educated/own homes and are paid lower salaries because of systemic racism.

What do you disagree with? Did they use non-whites, BAME?

Do you think it's not because of systemic racism?

Do you not like that all non-whites are put together?

How do you think it should be presented?

Crossposted. Ah I see what you took issue with now. Shame. Yes, yabu. I would drop it rather than escalate, as you'll make yourself seem like you don't understand statistics.

Some very interesting points made here

Maybe we need to listen to the wider narrative rather than the let’s make everyone a victim shouty voice.

I don’t think you or your boss were being unreasonable.

Your comments could be construed as “racially insensitive” because POC are victims of an oppressive and racist system. Even those who have made it, the billionaires and the well educated still suffer from racism. In my experience, my race still defines my life. This doesn’t mean that you or me are passively awaiting our white saviours to fix the system. POC continue to fight the good fight, but without much power, change will be slow.

So, I do see where you’re coming from. Although we are victims of racism, we will not accept oppression and have no need for white saviours to see the wrong in their ways and offer us some kind of salvation. This conversation, though, requires nuance that would not be present in white spaces like your workplace or Mumsnet. It’s so easy for a racist to hear one POC say “I’m not a victim” and hear “racism doesn’t exist anymore” so you run the risk of becoming the “good negro” they use to support their racist ideology. This, of course is not right, but it is the consequence of the world we live in.

My advice would be to carry out future discussions about race among other BAME voices, because, unfortunately, white society is just not ready for nuanced discussions on race.

Op you’re not willing to listen to any one here. You’re not willing to listen to your boss. You’re not willing to listen to your dad. You’re not willing to accept anything other than you were right, you were not racially insensitive and that you have a thing or two to teach these people.

Folks here, like everyone else can only try to help you so much, after which there is no point continuing. If you cannot see the bigger picture, and cannot see your bosses point, and are unwilling to accept anything other than your view, then I don’t think anything can be done to help you.

@Sakalibre the comments on here are fucking wild. I actually feel that they are quite bullying. As I previously said I really think we should be listening to people who have experienced the thing we're discussing. Seemingly I'm quite alone on this on here.

Also totally get your offence at the word victim as I also said previously we say abuse survivor not victim. Sorry people are so shit. One thing I would say is this is probably a harsh lesson in the world of work. Manager and employers say they want to be inclusive and diverse but actually don't want to be challenged.

@HeLa1 how would you get white society to a place where we are ready for nuanced discussions on race. I ask because we need to get there.

If the material had focused more on the behaviour of white society and how this victimised a whole people I think it would be more valuable and might get people to think a bit more.

[quote Whatevesok]@Sakalibre the comments on here are fucking wild. I actually feel that they are quite bullying. As I previously said I really think we should be listening to people who have experienced the thing we're discussing. Seemingly I'm quite alone on this on here.

Also totally get your offence at the word victim as I also said previously we say abuse survivor not victim. Sorry people are so shit. One thing I would say is this is probably a harsh lesson in the world of work. Manager and employers say they want to be inclusive and diverse but actually don't want to be challenged.[/quote]
I agree, it’s bullying and they will not leave it alone. Like a broken record offering nothing to the thread. There are lots of messages of support earlier on in the thread.

@Bluntness100

Op you’re not willing to listen to any one here. You’re not willing to listen to your boss. You’re not willing to listen to your dad. You’re not willing to accept anything other than you were right, you were not racially insensitive and that you have a thing or two to teach these people.

Folks here, like everyone else can only try to help you so much, after which there is no point continuing. If you cannot see the bigger picture, and cannot see your bosses point, and are unwilling to accept anything other than your view, then I don’t think anything can be done to help you.

Bluntness you do not speak for the whole fucking thread. Seriously you don’t. Many many posters have opposing views to you. Your the same on every thread! Horrible.

Appalling but I'm not sure if I'd go to your boss or put on record with HR first.

@Nikori
"Quite! But, from experience when white people are trying to be woke, they don’t like being told that they are still being incredibly insensitive."

WTAF

I think white people are willing for discussions on race and I've always found MN to be intolerant of racists. There are certain threads which come up time and again and I nearly always feel backed up by the number of MNers who hand racists arses to them on a platter.

[quote jewel1968]@HeLa1 how would you get white society to a place where we are ready for nuanced discussions on race. I ask because we need to get there.

If the material had focused more on the behaviour of white society and how this victimised a whole people I think it would be more valuable and might get people to think a bit more.[/quote]
Tbh I don’t know how. I’m sure there is loads of information out there from more experienced people than me, but in my own (cynical) opinion, I don’t think white society at large will ever be ready.

What I do think can help a little is changing the perspective on the word racist. So many people view racism as black and white (pun intended); racism is only calling people a slur intentionally or refusing to serve black customers etc. There is also this narrative that racism cannot be internalised which is confusing to me as most people seem to acknowledge the existence of internalised misogyny. People, usually white people, also seem to forget that racism can be perpetrated by minority groups against other minority groups which explains why people love to bring up Priti Patel as some kind of checkmate.

I also think we as a society need to move away from seeing “racist” as an insult. I’m a black woman, I have said and thought racist things about other black and brown people and when called out, I acknowledge my mistake, apologise and try to do better. We grow up in a racist society. From birth we are fed the lie that white/pale skin is superior so it’s no wonder we all end up spouting some nonsense at one point in our lives.

That the OP continually references herself as the core of whatever contention she made indicates she doesn’t really think beyond herself.

Being from a minority doesn’t preclude you from making an offensive or racist statement. I can think of one rl experience where someone with a similar background to the OP made a blatant statement and got sacked for it.

Based on her communication on here, it’s fairly easy to see a manager having to have a word.

I agree

Sakalibre your never going to win an argument with a few faceless nobodies on
the internet.

And judging by the self absorbed style of posting here, you will not win any arguments with management. Your dad called it right

@Aridane

That the OP continually references herself as the core of whatever contention she made indicates she doesn’t really think beyond herself.

Being from a minority doesn’t preclude you from making an offensive or racist statement. I can think of one rl experience where someone with a similar background to the OP made a blatant statement and got sacked for it.

Based on her communication on here, it’s fairly easy to see a manager having to have a word.

I agree

Oh wow. So the OP is now racist herself. Wtf? The thread that keeps on giving ...

That wasn’t what the quote said - sighs

I've been busy so have only come back now to see how this thread turned out. Plus, race discussions are tiring, although obviously absolutely necessary.

Seriously, it's like talking to brick walls on here!

It would be so interesting to know the race of all posters on threads like this. I bet some of them don't even realise that they have some 'other' DNA in them!
Or maybe they do?
Maybe their views are shadowed by some kind of self-hatred/self-denial or Survival of the Fittest/Fear of a Black Planet mentality (e.g. Hitler, KKK, uneducated Trump supporter and the like, etc)?

@Notredamn

'...All I got for asking the questions was a load of vile abuse (not from the OP).'

Who gave you a load of 'vile' abuse!? I must have missed that. Why are you reaching (exaggerating)?
You're making yourself look like a victim/Karen now 🙄

@Aridane
And you're just as bad.

@HeLa1
'My advice would be to carry out future discussions about race among other BAME voices, because, unfortunately, white society is just not ready for nuanced discussions on race.'

^This

As I previously stated upthread, it is pointless in engaging in race discussions on MN as most posters on here are non-BAME and just do not want to 'get it', as their race does not and never will have a negative effect on their lives. Some of them would just like to get on with their lives thank you very much without all this race and BLM stuff in the way, disrupting the equilibrium and their way of life/privileges at the expense of others.

@AnaadiNitya
👏👏👏