My boss essentially warned me for racial insensitivity - aibu?

[Sakalibre]

Firstly, my maternal grandparents were born in Morroco and my paternal grandparents were born in India.

I'm in my 2nd year of a grad scheme (financial services).

Last week, we were given a presentation which addressed systematic racism in relation to the BLM movement.

I am the only female in my team of 15 and the only person under 30 so have a unique perspective.

At the end of the presentation, I very sensitively and tactfully stated I personally do not like being viewed as a victim purely based on the colour of my skin. I tried to say this in a constructive way that some non-white people could take offence to some of the things that had been stated in the presentation. I emphasised this was just an opinion

Anyway, I had a 1 to 1 meeting with my line manager following this presentation and I was given what can only be described as a very stern telling off. I tried to explain my position but he was having none of it. In the end, I actually apologised to him. Which I regret now.

Over the weekend I've given it all a lot of thought. Why should my feelings be discounted? Why shut down the conversation?

WIBU? Should I go over this again with my boss tomorrow?

The op gave constructive criticism based on her own experience. A good manager would have encouraged the team to reflect on a different view, rather than dismissing her.

The irony of this is staggering! Are we still at a point where white men tell non white people how to feel?

OP you were brave speaking up and talking about how as a non white women you didn’t feel like a victim. To be honest I would have been cringing if I was in your position, the only non white person in a room who was essentially being labelled a victim. Maybe they should have stuck an neon arrow pointing at you with ‘victim’ on.

You absolutely did have a unique perspective as that presentation was about you. Don’t be shouted down by people on here because you have the ‘wrong think’

I think it’s really sad your dad advised you to keep your head down as he probably knows to well that if a non white person speaks their mind it won’t go down to well.

There has been a few good posts on here on how to proceed if you want to broach the subject again with work - you actually apologising for not feeling like a victim would get under my skin too.

If you was my dd I don’t know what I’d advise tbh - shamefully I think I’d go with what your dad is saying. Your career is more important than that idiot and unfortunately your going to meet plenty of them on your career path. Although I’d love it if you went in and discussed it again through experience I think they would dig their heels in.

Good luck

I agree a good manager would have tackled it in the moment, inviting reflection and further thought. Not this.

OP, I think your manager was wrong for what it's worth. It was a valid experience to share, to remind people that don't encounter systemic racism/racism/etc that different people have different preferences and it's best to treat them as people and bear all of that in mind.

@MellowBird85

At the end of the presentation, I very sensitively and tactfully stated I personally do not like being viewed as a victim purely based on the colour of my skin.

I follow a black women on FB who states exactly the same thing. I think, in light of the recent BLM movement, there is a certain group of people who are absolutely revelling in moral superiority by standing up for what they believe are the poor little oppressed ethnic minorities. They’re feeling ultra woke and cutting edge. And what you said challenges this belief they’ve got. It’s like saying “No, stay oppressed so us heroes can keep sticking up for you!” It’s insulting and patronising.

@MellowBird85 thank you, I haven't read much further on in this post but you are absolutely right.

As a mixed race person I am embarrassed by woke people speaking on 'my behalf'. I don't want them to. I am happy, I am very proud of my family.

Some part of me thinks that some woke people protest too much, I seriously think they are in fact closet racists because they just won't let anything lie.

This thread is seriously mad.
The gist of some of these posts is that the op can’t speak of her experiences as in some of your eyes she is not black enough as she is only brown.
Even black people come in many shades so are you also going to tell a lighter skinned Ethiopian that they are not black Africans as some of their autosomal ancestry comes from other than African Origin?

To be fair, I think it's mainly one person who makes the distinction between black/brown. I agree that it's a totally absurd one.

cinammonbuns - I'm brown and being told that I am a victim but the second I share my experience I get told to shut the fuck up by a middle-aged man If he told you. To shut the fuck up you need to go down the formal complaint route. May I ask what his sex and age have to do with it?.

I'm a black woman in my twenties and would say it entirely depends on the context. I personally find being a strong black woman empowering and the opposite of being a victim. But black people as a group have been made victims for years.

This is an example of how a bias towards the white population affects all people with dark skin.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/13/decolonising-dermatology-why-black-and-brown-skin-need-better-treatment

Wow

I think you should escalate it personally as a prime example of bloody institutional racism!

You were merely pointing out that the word "victim" was undesirable, as undesirable as being treated differently due to the colour of your skin.

I am white, but seriously, when people the people in charge try to tackle the isms, they invariably become deaf to common sense.

A victim is by its nature subordinate to a perpetrator FFS

sorry not read all 15 pages x

and I as a white person would no doubt have been sacked for objecting to the victim label.

Society needs to acknowledge the past, apologise for it, even the playing field, put strong consequences for breach, monitor comprehensively and call out racism at every opportunity. Otherwise we end up aspiring to be being seen to do something, whilst actually doing nothing at all.

Hopefully, the manager will have also reflected on this over the weekend and be ready with an apology for the OP.

Yes op you’re Experiences are unique, as are every person in that rooms depending on their history and family circle.

I am commenting on your age because your comments are immature and focus solely on you, with no ability demonstrated to see the bigger picture in terms of others views, thr make up of the people in the room. You see them simply as gender age and skin colour. Something that needs it stop.

However, Keep going and let folks egg you on on here. One day you will see why I am saying what I am saying. By which point I suspect it will be too late.

@Bluntness100

Yes op you’re Experiences are unique, as are every person in that rooms depending on their history and family circle.

I am commenting on your age because your comments are immature and focus solely on you, with no ability demonstrated to see the bigger picture in terms of others views, thr make up of the people in the room. You see them simply as gender age and skin colour. Something that needs it stop.

However, Keep going and let folks egg you on on here. One day you will see why I am saying what I am saying. By which point I suspect it will be too late.

Ffs! Bluntness have a day off!

How was the topic decided upon? It seems that race is a strange topic for a graduate project at work.
If the company asked for it then they should have been prepared for all view.
If you and your team decided them maybe the lesson is to choose a less emotive topic for the work place.

Lots of patronising comments on here, OP. I’m sorry. Sometimes race threads go this way on MN with a select few loudly telling you that your experiences and views don’t matter. They do matter. Please know we don’t all think this way and I don’t think you were wrong. I am BAME and have been told how to feel before and I’m at the point where I don’t even try to engage. Pig headed ignorant people who are closet racists (and probably don’t even realise it) will never change.

I would completely agree if OP being told how to think or feel was what had happened- of course! But my issue is that nowhere (as far as I can see) states this to be the case. I tried to clarify but my question wasn't answered as is OP's right but that leads me to stick with my first opinion.

One problem that cropped up coinciding with BLM is that black people were being singled out in the workplace to give their thoughts on it and educate white people. Obviously this could be viewed as othering and understandably the general reaction was 'it isn't my job to educate you- find resources yourself'. Rightfully so. Yet when this happened at OP's workplace and I'm guessing statistics on hate crime were included in it (?) the OP didn't like it because the victims were mentioned. At no point was OP personally called a 'victim' just for her skin colour. If she was then she's within her rights to go nuclear...I would.

It must have been very uncomfortable for you, OP.
You're in financial services, 2 years into a grad scheme, non-white, woman and young.

Most likely nobody wants to listen to you, and i think your dad was probably trying to say that with "keep your head down and get on" type of encouragement - because sometime (hopefully sooner rather than later) you'll be in more of a position where people have to listen to you.

tbh i think that some areas of diversity training should be segregated (i know we've had lots of dicussions about that here) and not all of it should be mixed groups. We had some "sexism in the workplace" training once, and it was fucking excruciating having to see the guys we work with shown slides of not to touch women at work, not to say "hi gorgeous" to the attractive young ones etc etc. That would have been better without the men. Then we could have come in after and given our experience, and also i agree that i refuse to be called a victim. We managed to make that point in the end but only after a couple of hours of watching slides of women only being shown as victims. it was confusing as heck for a lot of people there, including some of the younger women.

Good luck with your boss. Decide if you want to make your stand with this and go for it or not.

Sometimes race threads go this way on MN with a select few hmm loudly telling you that your experiences and views don’t matter.

Can you link us to one post where someone has said her views don’t matter? Saying others views also matter doesn’t equate to saying hers don’t.

So I think you need to show us the posts you’re referring to. Or withdraw your post.

One problem with this thread was trying to find out what was in the presentation and what the OP said then.

In the OP she seems to say that she tried to say she was offended but by saying that, IHO, some people might be offended.
TBF, and for all we know, the boss might not have even put her in the same group that he thought was being addressed as victims of institutional racism.

But, and as I've been pointing out, the insidious nature of institutional ism is that people don't even realise it happens. We can be both victims and reinforcers of it, without noticing.
As usual, whatever word we use to refer to the victims, subjects, survivors (not really applicable to something that permeates society, unlike specific events), whatever, will become tainted.

Even without victim mentality, I think we can all recognise the lack of diversity at top power levels. We all suffer when our lives are mainly affected by white males. Or by non-white males who won't speak out or reinforce their policies to get to the top jobs.

I think this thread is an interesting debate beyond the OP's personal experience of this event.

Yeah Bluntness tries to discredit everyone. Don’t take it personally it’s just how they post. Best to ignore tbh

Yes - best to ignore any comments that don’t accord with your ‘unique’ perspective

One problem with this thread was trying to find out what was in the presentation and what the OP said then

In the OP she seems to say that she tried to say she was offended but by saying that, IHO, some people might be offended

No actually she did explicitly say what she said multiple times 🥴

And you think that white people might be offended that non white people dont feel like victims - only in your world maybe ...

The irony of this thread is staggering.

Good luck today OP for what ever you decided

Ffs! Bluntness have a day off!

You would have more credibility if you made a reasoned argument than resorting to personal abuse of a poster

FWIW - I agree with @Bluntness100 on the seeming immaturity of OP

the second I share my experience I get told to shut the fuck up by a middle-aged man

See - that’s the think that shocks me - ie that the OP was told to SHUT THE FUCK UP by someone in a presentation (or in a 1:1 afterwards). Doesn’t matter much that he’s middled aged, white and male (as opposed to your youth and female brownness) but SHUT THE FUCK UP in a work context is unacceptable

(did he really say that?!?)