to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@Friendsoftheearth
👏👏👏

YABU to say schools don’t exist for parents economic convenience, and sound like you are coming from this from a privileged position.

It’s all well saying to have a Plan B, and making “difficult financial decisions”, but if you can only afford to work because your children are in school, and if you don’t work you can’t afford the roof of your own home what do you suggest the Plan B should be?

Schools closing disproportionally impacts the poorest children and women.

I say this as someone who is a keyworker and also fortunate enough to be able to pay for a Nanny. I can afford to have a Plan B others are not as lucky.

@ friendsoftheearth did you miss the post in which I said I want schools to reopen and for children to get back? You're U4T's mouthpiece aren't you?

Who the hell is U4T??

The government have made it crystal clear they will not be shutting schools again under any circumstances.

This is exactly where the government have been devious. Of course schools will close if there not enough staff to keep them open. What do people think will happen if a teacher is off ill? Most schools have no "spare" teachers any more. The tories cut that to the bone. TAs have been let go or have resigned in large numbers. Without enough teachers there will be closures.

I don't think the OP is wrong or goady to let it be known that schools may well close again. It's a distinct possibility.

The contempt and hatred some parents on MN have for teachers is, fortunately, not reflected in the real world. Most people want teachers to feel safe and to keep the children safe.

There are a few "Do it or else" types on here who are well deserving of any contempt that comes their way. I've thought for some time that they are not even parents. They just get their jollies by being venomous.

The government certainly sees a function of (primary) schools as being childcare. That’s why mothers are financially penalised if they don’t go back to work when their child reaches age 5 (school starting age) , and why SAHM’s are looked down up in general.

Maybe take that up with the government OP?

OP my DD’s independent school is doing PPE (where requested by teacher or pupil), social distancing, ventilation, daily temperature checks, bubbles, will mass test at start of term at parents’ cost etc and will live stream to self isolating pupils/vulnerable pupils etc and move online at short notice. 5 page plan has been sent to all parents and they have clearly been planning this at senior level most of the summer. The U.K. government and education departments should give more responsibility to individual councils and heads/heads of academies to make their own safety decisions.

These parents who you’re sneering about and telling to suck it up are nurses, doctors, supermarket workers, factory workers, farmers, social workers, teachers, engineers, scientists, bus drivers, in fact every fucking job, all of which are needed by society and the economy. I expect you’d moan if you couldn’t buy food, access healthcare, turn on your lights and were told oh well, it’s your problem.

Education is a human right, it’s up to schools to sort out a plan B not parents.

I really hope you’re not a teacher as you sound appalling. How nice to have a job where you can just pick and choose the hours you work and your employer just gives you a happy smile. Although I wasn’t aware teachers could do that so there you go.

I am calling you out for what you are as a mother of two children, I am not a mouthpiece for anyone except for my bloody children who have suffered terribly being out of school for six months and counting.

No it is never going to be acceptable to anyone to close the schools again. No one will stand for it.

You are clearly politically motivated to be posting on here with such a goady horrible thread, and you are doing so with the worst of intentions. You are not here to support or offer help to parents, you are here to cause as much upset and trouble as possible.

Your goal to keep schools closed has failed. So please just stop now.

I am WFH. I could keep my children at home indefinitely.if the teachers step up and do the educating. But their efforts ( in the experience of my 4 Children) were risible last term which I expect is why the govt realised that having children physically in school is the only way to ensure teachers teach.

I'm so grateful that DS is 14 and not primary age. It brings its own challenges- thank goodness he was not in a critical exam year last term, but is starting his Nat 5 subjects this term.

If we need to go back to online provision, and if it is as poor as it was last term ( DS is at a private school btw) then my plan B is to hire tutors.

But people in our (now virtual) office with primary age DC have already been trying to do the more or less impossible since March. We're lucky as we can work from home and our employer has been very understanding, but ultimately some work needs to be done regardless of circumstances.

If the online provision provided last term had seemed like a plausible substitute, then parents may have been more accepting of it. But the work provided to DS was completely variable in style and quality by teacher and it all seemed very heavily based on some parental input.

Just waiting for the usual poster to point out that provided my DC has access to BBC bitesize, then he shouldn't need anything more to pass his exams.

I do think both the Scottish and English government have been disingenuous though. They've lurched from one unacceptable response - 2 metre distancing and part time education - to another - schools back full time no PPE and blame those demanding Usforthem parents if it goes wrong. A more nuanced set of plans based on infection and death rate would have given options and perhaps allayed natural fears.

people like yourself, who have failed to comprehend this so far, need to do so and think ahead to what might have to happen

I think we can all think ahead to what might have to happen. The challenge is finding solutions.

Parents illegally sharing childcare, leaving young children at home by themselves, quitting jobs, losing their homes, having mental health breakdowns, sending children to grandparents despite them being vulnerable, going on benefits. Children neglected, homeless, hungry, in poverty, without access to effective education.

For our family personally, the contrast could not be more stark. DS will likely continue at his excellent nursery. If it shuts (for instance, due to a confirmed Covid case), we will work from home and split childcare while quarantining. Our employers are very understanding and will likely cut our work-loads or give us paid time off. After quarantining, we will get grandparents in to help or (if that's not allowed) pay for a part-time nanny.

The other consequence I can see for us personally is huge tax rises to pay for the shortfall in tax income from those who have lost their jobs and the increase in families with children claiming benefits. We will pay, shut up and be grateful for our incredible privilege.

Ultimately parents will have a default plan B because they're not gonna drop them off at the school gates and leave them outside for 8 hours.

Whether that's leaving kids home alone, flexible working of some sort, childcare that goes against the rules or losing their job, defaulting on the mortgage and losing their home.

However plenty of schools have no plan B for education given how many did little to zero over the last lockdown, and the government have no plan B for anything

@SaltyAndFresh actually schools do exist to provide full time education for children.

Me and DH have been working full time from home with DD here for the last 6 months, we had no support from school.

1 phone call in April, a handful of links on the school website, no marking, no feedback, nothing.

There were a grand total of a maximum 70 children in school on any given day under the key worker/ vulnerable child rules this is a school that usually has 700 so even split into small groups there were plenty of teachers who had no work to do during the period where school was unavailable to the majority of children.

I do expect our school to make a plan B, I see no reason given the massive amount of time they have had to develop schemes of work and mechanisms for remote delivery, why school should not be able to provide remote support if they are forced to close bubbles or the whole school.

Hahaha. Get another job. Dead easy. I've just done that having been made redundant in March. It took me 5 months. It's a 30% pay drop for me, and there were 75 applications for one job.

Mine is nursery age. If they close my plan B will have to be grandparents house whether we are in lockdown or not.

Most working parents already have a plan b. Yabu

@Blakes77 I dont know of any schools (certainly not mine or those of teacher friends) that were allowed to work in the way you describe. Such a sweeping statement to say teachers were working part time.

I'm a doctor. I can't reduce my hours, especially if there is a second peak. It's really not as simple as saying parents need to reduce their hours. It's not an option for many, for a variety of reasons.

It's a 30% pay drop for me, and there were 75 applications for one job.

Yes that's the situation we'll be in too. I know there are lots of social care vacancies locally but nothing above NMW.

I tell you what makes me laugh (not that it's funny) about all this. Is SAHMs are generally looked down upon. I've lost count of the number of times I've been called workshy, lazy, not setting a good example for my daughters etc. The government, or society in general does not place a high value on being at at home parent.

Times like this come and suddenly from all angles it's 'well, someone will have to be at at home parent, your children are your own responsibility not that of schools or anyone else!'. Not so low value now, are we?!

This is not a dig at working mothers btw. I think either is a fine choice and people should do what works for their own families.

I think we can all think ahead to what might have to happen. The challenge is finding solutions.

This

YABVU to suggest that schools are separate from the economic system which pays for their existence in order to continue the supply of an educated workforce.
They aren’t “for parents economic benefit”. They are for society’s economic benefit. If schools don’t educate children, then society suffers by way of ill educated future workers and impoverished parents who are no longer able to contribute to the economy as they used to because the entire economic model got ripped up without notice when they happened to have dependent children.
YABU to suggest this is individual parents problem to sort out. It’s much bigger than that.

Education is a human right, it’s up to schools to sort out a plan B not parents.

Not according to the law it isn't.
Parents are responsible for their children's education, but they outsource it to schools. When schools are closed and childcare not operating, for once parents are actually supposed to parent, lol.

Tighten your belts, drop hours, change job, other parent drop hours, etc.
Many double income families weren't benefiting from 2 incomes by the time they'd taken out work costs and childcare anyway.
There will be many more redundancies where a parent can be at home.
These who work opposite shifts etc.

Single parents will be the one's to suffer again, they can't ask their partner to share parenting requirements.

@peonyblossom

I tell you what makes me laugh (not that it's funny) about all this. Is SAHMs are generally looked down upon. I've lost count of the number of times I've been called workshy, lazy, not setting a good example for my daughters etc. The government, or society in general does not place a high value on being at at home parent.

Times like this come and suddenly from all angles it's 'well, someone will have to be at at home parent, your children are your own responsibility not that of schools or anyone else!'. Not so low value now, are we?!

This is not a dig at working mothers btw. I think either is a fine choice and people should do what works for their own families.

I don't really understand your point unless you've not been working in expectation of a global pandemic - in which case I really think you should have told someone else.

My son went back to school last week, all of the teachers have to wear masks. Each class have their lunch at their desks and have a section of the playground which is only for them. Each class has their own gate to enter/leave school and parents aren't allowed into the playground. It seems to be working quite well.