to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

Many people now accept that schools are not going to be there for their children as education/childcare/anything for a long time...They've fully assimilated the message that all they can expect, despite teachers being paid in full, is a few worksheets here and there.

I'd be going private if DS was school age (and I realise how incredibly lucky we are that this would be an option).

Schools by definition look after children while educating them. We've all been obliged to send them by law for years so a large number of us either kept or got jobs. So, if by plan B you mean that many parents mainly women will reduce their hours, leave their jobs, be furloughed for childcare or sacked for being parents then I guess that's your plan B.

Having said that, I sympathise with teachers ref (lack of) PPE and would be happy enough to send my child every other week if that were an option. Theoretically my older child could carry on on Google classroom but socially it's not idea. I also don't expect teachers to ensure my child socially distances (but am not sure what I am really supposed to do about my 7 year old always remembering to if I am not with him?) As usual teachers have been treated like shit by the government over this and examgate, so I do not blame teachers or schools for anything.

It's difficult - parents rely on schools so they can work - some people only get statutory sick pay if they're off sick. Would teachers be happy to get statutory sick pay when they are off due to covid?

This isn't the situation I was referring to but I do sympathise. Unfortunately I think it's going to exacerbate the problem as some will feel they have no choice but to send children who should be isolating into school.

What a pointless thread.
Agreed
Why even discuss schools closing 6 months is far far too long and in my opinion some years the ones sitting exams etc should not have closed .
If they close again they will be so far behind they will most probably need to repeat years .
Even in the supermarket they have scrapped queuing , one way system just wear a mask so why the hell do parents feel it safe to walk round Asda but not go to school ? .

YANBU in one sense, but goady in others. I think most parents are going into this with their eyes open. I'd love my kids to get a full year at school but will be surprised if schools make it as far as the second half of term before having to generally close. I think most parents know this.

DH is not being paid but is working on developing his own software product, I am WFH and will be able to continue to as long as I need to. Both schools were pretty good during lockdown, so I know we'll have reasonable support if (let's face it, when) they close, so we're quite lucky.

And no, schools do not exist 'for parents' economic convenience' but under the circumstances, women, who did not invent patriarchy and capitalism, and who because of the latter need to earn a salary as well, are shouldering the vast majority of the childcare/teaching when kids are at home and disproportionately losing their jobs. So I think it's totally understandable for many of us to want our kids to return to school seeing as we can't teach and care for our kids while holding down a full time job, and destroy patriarchy and smash or massively reconstruct the capitalism that requires us to work at the same time, sadly. Given that the after-affects of this could set women's progress back massively, it's not just about 'our economic convenience'.

The thing is, for most of us the whole lockdown/homeschooling/childcare/working full time has been a fuck of a lot harder than it has been for teachers
Why do you think this @Blakes77? I mean, my child is an adult, so it was easier for me, but you do know that many, many teachers (as many as in any other job, possibly more) do have school age children? So why would working from home have been easier for them? Plus they’ll have had some days working actually in school for key workers’ children.

I don’t get why non-teachers say posts like this are goady. You think they are because they present a scenario you don’t want to consider. As a PP said, parents and teachers want the same thing - schools as open as possible as consistently as possible. Can we stop attacking each other and think about what that means?

As regards ways to make it better - at secondary school (at least) masks. Not just for the teacher, as that doesn’t protect the teacher - it’s children wearing them that does. More money for cleaning everywhere. The acceptance that fully open may not mean for everyone everyday. Some sort of blended model where children are in part of the week and working from the home the rest would allow social distancing to happen. I know it’s a nightmare for parents of primary’s aged children - but don’t attack teachers about that, ask what the government are going to do to make it work.
The alternative is schools shutting far, far more frequently as far as I can see. I hope I’m wrong.

Can we also be specific and stop talking about single parents? 90%of single parents are mothers, so we are really talking about the impact on a group of women who already have the hardest lives and worst outcomes for their children, losing their jobs and their children's stability.
I care about that. A lot.

OP I'm confused about your point here.

Not everyone can get a new job, unemployment is bonkers as it is.

If your point is that schools will probably shut (at least locally) for short periods then that's fine. However you've hammed up and confused a lot of issues in the argument here.

Plan B for schools is on line lessons. So my plan B is WFH.

for most of us the whole lockdown/homeschooling/childcare/working full time has been a fuck of a lot harder than it has been for teachers

Says who? What do you know about my life, my income, how school closures impacted that income, my children, their needs, the demands of the schools I work at in terms of work expectations, delivery of extra curricula activities, my home situation, ages of chlildren, what childcare I have etc etc etc.

@Blakes77

Why do you think teachers haven’t been affected in this way? That we didn’t juggle work and childcare? That we left our kids to fend for themselves whilst we worked? And some of us have primary aged children or even younger. As I said, I don't know any teachers who have been working a 40 hour week. Most of them who have young children have been managing maybe 20 hours (still paid full time though), and were supported in their efforts by their schools and told to make sure they relax and get downtime for their mental well being. Great, but NOT the experience of most people! I can see why so many really really don't want to go back in..

Should it perhaps have been the experience of most people? Why the race to the bottom? Wouldn’t it be better for the government and employers to recognise the value of parenting and facilitate it a bit better. I disagree about the hours of work and the attitude of educational management mind - May have been true in some cases, but certainly not all.

@Enoughnowstop

Well you can say that, but for single parents schools are essential to their economic participation! Single parents are expected to be working once their children start school according to the DWP, so don't have much option other than to work and I don't know what sort of back up Plan B you think they should have

I’m a single parent and a teacher. What do you think I’m going to do when my children’s school closes?!

When you've found the magic solution please can you tell me as I have no idea either.

@islockdownoveryet

What a pointless thread. Agreed Why even discuss schools closing 6 months is far far too long and in my opinion some years the ones sitting exams etc should not have closed . If they close again they will be so far behind they will most probably need to repeat years . Even in the supermarket they have scrapped queuing , one way system just wear a mask so why the hell do parents feel it safe to walk round Asda but not go to school ? .

Oh FFS. Its irrelevant how long schools have been shut for if current plans mean full reopening isn't sustainable and they end up closing again either partially or fully. The point of the thread is that people like yourself, who have failed to comprehend this so far, need to do so and think ahead to what might have to happen, instead of sticking your fingers in your ears and screeching for schools to stay open come what may.

@SaltyAndFresh

I'm in a lockdown area, currently schools are on the 'allowed' list but going into another persons home/garden isnt.

That removes any childcare options which involve family/friends which means all working parents in this city would need to be at home in the event of school closing. For some that would be working from home, not ideal but needs must, for many others this would mean leaving their job or unpaid leave if work are willing to allow that. Not much room for a viable plan b if you need 2 salaries to pay the bills.

Online lessons only work if every child has a laptop, WiFi and somewhere to study. Not going to happen with working parents who can’t work from home.

Quick question, OP - will you expect to be paid your full salary if school closes? As many have pointed out, the furlough scheme is coming to an end and how would it affect you if your income was taken away as a consequence of not being able to do your job. As would happen to thousands in the private sector.

I'm not sure why some teachers find it so demeaning when it's pointed out school enables parents to work, no childcare is not your primary function, but it is one of the cogs in our economy and if that cog breaks the whole economy comes crashing down because many parents utilise the time their children are out of the house getting educated to go to work- this isn't a secret. If you suddenly take away that decade old tradition, parents will struggle.

I do not have a plan B, what plan B can there possibly be? If lockdown resumes households won't be able to mix, childcare establishments will close and there will be no one to watch the kids? What are you saying, a parent has to quit work? Yeah that'll get society back on its feet.

For me it's more of a stressor than a real issue as I am WFH and have a good employer, but my priority right now is my children's education, they've missed too much, I just don't see the concern in the figures I've seen.

This thread is purely designed to frighten parents and make them panic, there is no way the government will close every school again, they have said as much over and over again.

so we are really talking about the impact on a group of women who already have the hardest lives and worst outcomes for their children

@Blakes77 Nice view you have of single mothers there, such a sweeping generalisation.

OP you know the situation and so does everyone on this thread.

The whole thing is a well-oiled machine, one needs the other, there's no way around it. No, a significant proportion of parents can't actually have a real Plan B, can they? There are literally hundreds of thousands of people with primary aged children, who cannot be left unsupervised in the day, who work low-pay jobs (and even mid-pay jobs and lots and LOTS of them are keyworkers) which would not cover childcare expenses, all day every day, on top.

Enough of us can only function to keep the economy going with the part school plays, to mean that longer term school closures fuck it all up, and it does not matter one shit about Plan Bs. You can't Plan B your way around not earning enough to survive.

Pretty much the only comment that gets to the heart of it is this:

I've got a plan B for childcare but expect the school to have a plan B to educate my kids if they cannot physically be in school

If schools close and working parents need to be physically in the house, the only way that can dovetail with those parents still being able to work (and this still doesn't sort the issue for a SIGNIFICANT proportion of people) is not only to have provision for WFH, but ALSO for the homeschooling provision we saw over lockdown to change RADICALLY. Online classes, full-time online classes, a fuck of a lot more than I think ANY school (apart from private of course!!) saw happen during lockdown. And even then parents would be fucked, but at least they would be able to sit their 7, 8, 9, 20 year olds in front of a computer for 2 straight hours while they actually properly WORKED and the teachers taught.

This is just another teacher trying to whip up a frenzy to try and keep the schools closed.

It won't work. The schools are reopening, and they will stay open in much the same way Sweden have kept their schools open, even in the peak. We have learnt a great deal since the beginning of the pandemic, and we know it is safe to keep our schools opening and our children's lives on track.

The chapter of endless lockdowns and gardening is over. It is not even a choice anymore, the economy is already on its knees.

@TorysSuckRevokeArticle50 what I'm getting at is that schools don't exist to resolve that for you. It stands to reason that a local lockdown means school staff are likely to be affected given that teachers are working unprotected so there wouldn't be enough warm bodies to look after your DCs anyway. It does have to be considered.

@Blakes77
That’s true and a vast majority of these women are in low paid jobs with just ssp. My sister in law who has a 5yo, has worked throughout in a care home. Family have helped her continue working. She has had 5 days off sick during this whole lockdown due to lack of childcare. She worked for 6 weeks with no ppe, sat at dying peoples bedsides because family couldn’t come in. Has FaceTimed family of residents so they can see them. She has been told that from September she is expected not to take any days off for childcare and sick days are being strictly monitored.
Without her job she has no money to pay for the mortgage on the flat she bought two years ago. She will be homeless. School isn’t childcare to parents but like I said earlier it is for the DWP.

My Plan B is that myself and my DH will have to reduce our working hours to cover it.
Well aren't you lucky that that's an option for you?

*open