to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

If teachers don’t understand that school is indeed childcare for the vast majority of the working poor then I fear for our children’s education.

"Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?"

There are pupils with significant special needs in mainstream ( not always the parents choice) who may not have "covid appropriate behaviour". The schools will have to manage that or say they cannot meet need if they think the behaviour is unsafe and either extra support or alternative school places found. Not the pupil being told to stay home.

@FinnyStory

I think, actually it has become clear that schools are there for the economic benefit of the country. It seems everyone, except some teachers knew that already.

I do agree though, that the best chance we have of keeping schools open is if families (and staff) respect social distancing etc out of school to reduce the possibility of one of them taking it in. I'm fed up of hearing parents and staff say things along the lines of "I'm not bothering as I'll/they'll be mixing with 200 teenagers from Sept". That's exactly the reason to get it right now.

I'm beginning to think the government think it is.

They don't seem to actually care about the education and pastoral care that's provided within it.

I don’t think there is contempt and hatred for teachers on MN. I think there is criticism of the attitude being expressed by some teachers. There is also a lot of exasperation and frustration at the litany of posters, claiming to be teachers, that would have schools closed before they are open and a reversion to the current offer of education.

Sadly my experience is that the loss of respect for the profession isn’t limited to MN. It’s a widely held view. One that doesn’t change when people are told that it only exists because we are being brainwashed by the Tory media.

@Blakes77 Nice view you have of single mothers there, such a sweeping generalisation

Er...no, it's an economic fact that the children of single mothers have worse outcomes, mainly because of poverty (one income-more likely to be poor) and that women are more likely to lose their jobs in a recession, or because of a lack of childcare, especially if they have children.
Also, I was a single working mother for a decade, so there's that..

Many double income families weren't benefiting from 2 incomes by the time they'd taken out work costs and childcare anyway.

Is the benefit entirely about wages? What about national insurance contributions? Pension contributions? One parent not have a massive fuckoff gap on their CV? Professional qualifications not expiring?

@SaltyAndFresh thank you for the thread. Without your intelligent and kind guidance none of us would ever have contemplated that schools or even just parts of it might have to close due to Corona virus on a local or national level. We'd all just assume the teachers would continue to work in school to teach all kids in school just like they have for the last 6 months.

Oh wait... That's right. Plan B has been most people's lives for the last half a year, with some schools not attempting to provide any decent level of education.

There are pupils with significant special needs in mainstream ( not always the parents choice) who may not have "covid appropriate behaviour". The schools will have to manage that or say they cannot meet need if they think the behaviour is unsafe and either extra support or alternative school places found. Not the pupil being told to stay home.

I agree.

@Parker231

What Plan B are the schools offering.

Each offers there own.

Sadly because there is no funding and there's already a huge disparity between schools and sometimes between what students have within schools it widens the gap.

Some schools can and will offer teams, google classroom etc.

Some schools have far too many pupils who don't have it and WiFi at home or the space to learn properly due to overcrowding etc.

And all the computers they were distributing - many places were limited and told they couldn't have as many as they needed. Some are still waiting.

And the tutoring fund was to be used with only certain agencies and required the school to top it up with funds they don't have.

Most schools are with already in deficit and have made cut backs and some will be heading that way in the next 3 years.

Schools are an essential service. Like hospitals and the police. Teachers are key workers.

The government have stated they won't close schools again

It's as likely that schools will close again as it is that hospitals it police stations will going forward

Phew!

Thankfully I’m in Scotland in a rural area that has done well with low cases/deaths throughout so I’m not overly worried apart from when cold season comes which I hope their is some plan in place for testing so negative test means return or I
Could be off for 14 days every couple of weeks!

I think you are being very short sighted OP, the recession and unemployment is going to be bad enough with adding more to it surely? As employers have been flexible enough up to this point and I fear will just replace employees with those without children, how do you expect families to keep a roof over their heads and food in their bellies? Some families one wage is not enough and still isn’t even going part time, if you can!

When I got the blended learning letter through I could have cried as I have children as different ages and stages/schools. None old enough to be left alone and would have needed childcare every day of the week. Where were all the extra childminders and nursery places coming from? They are thin enough on the ground here. Both sets of grandparents work full time. Oh and I work in nursing, should I just leave that role I have worked so hard in leaving my team who are already short staffed even more so??? My DH can’t do his job part time either, he’s another one with a be here or don’t kind of job. So was very relieved when full time return was announced.

It’s also very easy for people to say that a good online source of learning should be set but in rural Scotland not everyone has access to good quality, fast internet and that can’t be set up at the drop of a hat either. Not to mention a lot of children at my DC school didn’t engage with the leaning that was set when the schools were closed either due to not being able to or having families who just didn’t care

It’s not all black and white I’m afraid

When schools are closed and childcare not operating, for once parents are actually supposed to parent, lol.

Silly comment. Arranging suitable education and appropriate childcare for your children is parenting. Primary school children in the UK spend less than 1000 hours a year in school. That's out of 8760 total hours. Parents are hardly getting out of parenting just because they send their kids to school in accordance with their legal obligations.

This is pretty goady OP, if my little one was old enough for school, and it was closed, we could do the childcare between us, as my DP is working from home with an understanding employer. I also work shifts, so can do the other part of the week.
Longer term he could give up work as I earn enough for it not to matter.

However I'm not enough of a twat to assume everyone has the options we do. There are lots of people who both need to work full time to put food on the table and not be made homeless. I think you're looking at this from a pretty privileged position if you can just cut hours to look after your dc, without losing your home or not being able to eat/heat the house.

Haven’t RTFT but the only back up plan for some working parents is for one of them to not work. Once children are school age then benefits assessors, divorce lawyers etc quite rightly expect parents to work. Because it is assumed that within school hours, parents can work. So what kind of Plan B do you suggest? Tell the judge that’s telling a divorcing mother that she can’t work in case schools close in a pandemic? She would have been laughed at. Parents of school age children are expected to work, end of. For those without young, healthy, local and willing grandparents there is no plan b in the event of childcare closures, other than reduced hours/resignations. I don’t see how that’s so hard to understand.

@askmehowiknow

It's as likely that schools will close again as it is that hospitals it police stations will going forward

See this is exactly the kind of comment that prompted my post. How is this a given when schools don't have anything like the Covid precautions that other services have? Again, what do you propose if too many teachers end up off sick because they haven't been able to SD / wear PPE / ventilate their classrooms / their 'bubbles' are essentially a core of 1300 with all the associated contacts? Thanks for illustrating my point.

[quote Blakes77]**@Blakes77 Nice view you have of single mothers there, such a sweeping generalisation

Er...no, it's an economic fact that the children of single mothers have worse outcomes, mainly because of poverty (one income-more likely to be poor) and that women are more likely to lose their jobs in a recession, or because of a lack of childcare, especially if they have children.
Also, I was a single working mother for a decade, so there's that..[/quote]
Some children of single mothers have worse outcomes. Not all children of single mothers have worse outcomes. People who assume that the outcomes will be worse for children of single mother families, especially those who are teachers, do them a grave injustice.

All children can achieve and all children should be given every opportunity to achieve regardless of their background. That won't happen if people assume they can't.

Here are the worse outcomes my own children are experiencing:

DC1 (graduated this year)- 1st class honours degree from a top university mostly attended by private school children.
DC2 - (year 11) Predicted all grades 8-9 in GCSEs.
DC3 - (year 10) As above.

I earn close to NMW and am in a job many regard as low skilled, though I have a degree and a postgraduate qualification connected to my work.

Your experience as a single parent is not the experience of every single parent. Not all of us have children with the worst outcomes or the hardest life. My life is fairly easy thank you.

I’m not sure if it’s that parents should have a plan B, more like the government is expecting that we will. I cannot see how secondaries with any cases will stay open for long due to the lack of distancing and the size of bubbles.
I think schools would be likely to stay open more easily and for longer with a week on, week off system with half classes. At least there’d be more than about 5cm between pupils then.

My plan b is breaking the law... as I am doing right now.

As with most of my colleagues we ate continuing to use family for childcare despite this currently being illegal in our local lockdown area (unless you have formed a support bubble, not possible for us though). The government has given us no other choice, there are no paid childcare options in my area that cover our NHS shifts. So we are all facing a fine in order to continue working. I hope to god when school starts it remains open, I hate putting my in laws in such a shitty situation.

it is assumed that within school hours, parents can work. So what kind of Plan B do you suggest?

I can't suggest a Plan B that will work for your circumstances. Neither can I guarantee you childcare if I have no protection form Covid.

I think the point peonyblossom was making is that she feels that having a SAHP in the family has historically been seen as the inferior/lazy option and now we are in the middle of a pandemic, the OP is effectively suggesting that’s exactly the situation we all should be in for when schools shut again.

My Plan B is to hope I am allowed to WFH and that the schools actually teach online this time round so that I can actually do my job! I have no Plan C :(

*
Oh FFS. Its irrelevant how long schools have been shut for if current plans mean full reopening isn't sustainable and they end up closing again either partially or fully. The point of the thread is that people like yourself, who have failed to comprehend this so far, need to do so and think ahead to what might have to happen, instead of sticking your fingers in your ears and screeching for schools to stay open come what may.*
Of course it's relevant they have missed 6 months . I'll be suprised if every child is up to scratch in September.
And actually I'm not sticking my fingers on my ears because I don't have a plan . I've got to work and dc is going to school . I'm not letting this government fuck with my life and my dc any longer .
You can panic and worry but I can't afford to I've lost so much already .
So I'm sorry if you don't like someone having a different opinion but you will start a thread about what if .
What if what if , I don't know what if I go outside now and get hit by a car . So I stay away from cars forever.
People like you are enjoying the drama of all this of a virus which is risk granted but not worth closing schools again. They did it as a precaution last time but it's hard to reopen when shut .
So carry on with your thread and whipping up hysterical you enjoy your yourself but most people haven't got a plan they have to work and the dc has to go to school it really is that simple .

YANBU, but good luck round here.

Parents are hardly getting out of parenting just because they send their kids to school in accordance with their legal obligations.

Erm, it's not a legal obligation at all, otherwise H.ed would be illegal.
It's usually a choice and a very good choice that also allows both parents the opportunity to work.

Now, these aren't normal times and schools may close, meaning parents will have to fill the childcare/ education void. They need a plan B, not the schools that will be closed and not responsible for parenting.
It's not rocket science.

@therhubarbbrothers. Your children are clearly doing fine (as are you!) . You must be very proud of them. They are definitely defying the stereotypes.

But they all seem old enough to sort themselves out now, if you'll excuse my saying so...

If you're looking after tinies/primary school age and trying to work full time simultaneously, surely two people to share the load is (usually) easier than one person having to do it all on their own?

[quote SaltyAndFresh]@askmehowiknow

It's as likely that schools will close again as it is that hospitals it police stations will going forward

See this is exactly the kind of comment that prompted my post. How is this a given when schools don't have anything like the Covid precautions that other services have? Again, what do you propose if too many teachers end up off sick because they haven't been able to SD / wear PPE / ventilate their classrooms / their 'bubbles' are essentially a core of 1300 with all the associated contacts? Thanks for illustrating my point.[/quote]
If you can't close you find solutions to make it work. Like every other essential service does.