to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@Iamnotthe1 Thank you, I am relieved I am not alone.

@milkysmum I’m in the same position sadly I have been lucky to take my child into work a few days but from September it’s not doable. If I have not got a job I loose my home and we will have no where to go no family can have us - we hardly have any family as it is.

Your not alone, I’m sure there are many in the same situation

[quote Kungfupanda67]**@IceCreamAndCandyfloss* Teachers are not there they supervise children whilst parents work. That’s why we have childcare.* but we don’t have childcare do we? What childcare is available M-F for school aged children during term time?[/quote]
Grandparents. Oh....wait.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I'm sorry OP. Selfish parents will cane you over this one. But I totally agree with you.

I don’t think any of the parents on this thread are selfish. We’ve had 5 months of juggling kids and work - Dh and I have had no time off at all, and our kids have pretty much had to fend for themselves. Fortunately they are older so it is manageable but it’s been tough for them. I’m unsure why it is selfish to want schools to open in September for the sake of our kids education and well being.

And I think we are all considering Plan B if the schools are forced to close. Personally I have done nothing but worry about how we are going to get by as the world returns to normal but schools are still closed. What I do wonder is why op is so adamant that for teachers, being back at work as normal is impossible to sustain, when every other type of business is managing to do so.

I'm not concerned about whether or not you think I'm being goady. I suppose you will be goaded by it if you're a parent who wants schools to open fully so that you can get back to work full time (I want schools to open as fully and safely as possible).

Because my DH and I have been in work throughout, we're out of options. We have no more annual leave and can't ask his parents to put themselves at risk. We're using a CM while we can but I accept that in the event of further school closures whether partial or full, one of us is going to have to change our hours or find another job, as are other parents in our situation. This will of course be obvious to some but sadly not to all on MN

YABU

children have a right to an education, just as you justifiably expect the right to healthcare

You also have the right to choose not to be a teacher, as I do not have to be a nurse, and if I don't want to look after Covid patients my choice is to change profession not to refuse to do my job.

HTH

I had plan b for childcare. Unfortunately an awaiting confirmation of cancer has put blown my plan b out of the window.

What plan b are you expecting people to have??

There are so many single parents who are facing unthinkable predicaments. I'm a nurse so cannot take my children into work with me, not that this should be an option people have to consider. Prior to summer break when talking to some of the other parents using Keyworker provision I heard many in tears as they faced job losses then when the wrap around care was suspended, did the government really think keyworkers worked 9-3?
I like many would not be able to utilise universal credit if I lost my job as I have a mortgage as UC would not cover this.
And if the proposal of schooling one week on one week of goes ahead just how would that work- what employer in the land will be able to allow employees to work alternate weeks!

Schools should provide resources/work for children of their schools but that should be their only obligation. Teachers are not there they supervise children whilst parents work. That’s why we have childcare.

What a phenomenally stupid comment! If that's the only obligation on schools, then we really can sack all teachers, sell all school buildings and just retain a small central body of teachers to produce work packs and online resources for parents. Much cheaper for taxpayers.

Also, parents don't have childcare for the school hours that they work. Partly because schools are unlikely to allow 'babysitters' for individual students into already overcrowded classrooms. Oh wait, someone must be caring for these children...where's the responsible adult? Guess what, it's the teacher . That's childcare.

The role of schools and teachers extends far beyond providing work and resources.

I have supported my key worker spouse over the past 6 months. We did not send the kids to school as directed by the school. I have worked from home - sometimes from 4am to help run the company. I have employed someone three hours a day to cover some of this time to ensure our children keep up their education. Over this time I have taken a 20 percent pay cut. I will ensure our children are Covid compliant but I am expecting the schools to go back and be open from September. Very sweet to think people have a plan b, I’ve used my plan b over the last 6 months and am now expecting others to lean in too.

The idea that anyone is on Plan B at this stage is laughable. Most people, parents, employers and workers, have run through the alphabet.

It’s hard for many people to understand your POV OP. Millions of people trotted off to work during the peak. Like the police officers on here who didn’t have adequate PPE, a known operational plan or any scope for social distancing. They had children and dependents and health problems. They put service before self and indeed family. Even if they did that just because they couldn’t afford not to be be paid and weren’t offered furlough.

You have a right to be selfish about your health and your family. Put these first by all means. But don’t expect the people who choose the needs of others or the children of those people to respect your decision. They will have first hand experience of deaths and hospitalisation amongst their colleagues.

Well you can say that, but for single parents schools are essential to their economic participation! Single parents are expected to be working once their children start school according to the DWP, so don't have much option other than to work and I don't know what sort of back up Plan B you think they should have

I’m a single parent and a teacher. What do you think I’m going to do when my children’s school closes?!

I'm assuming you are a teacher/school staff OP? So were fully pain during recent closures? Maybe a bit disingenuous to pretend you would be going part time on part time money if schools needed to close more.

OP
My children are no longer school age although one does go to college and has Aspergers. This really impacts his response to change. But I recognise how lucky I am that I’m in a 2 parent household with family help. That I won’t lose my jobs if I don’t come in. That if I did lose my job my husbands wage would mean we wouldn’t lose our house.
Many, many people are not so lucky, they have for many reasons been forced to rely on school so they can work. I doubt very much it’s through choice.
We as teachers have to accept that there is risk, that some schools will close in some areas. But I for one am hoping that this doesn’t happen that school can operate as before.
It’s a shame, teacher could have had so much support from parents and used this support to improve education. All that seems to be happening now is a war between teachers and parents.

Where did I say that I don't want children educated and I don't want to do my own job?

We’ve had 5 months of juggling kids and work - Dh and I have had no time off at all, and our kids have pretty much had to fend for themselves. Fortunately they are older so it is manageable but it’s been tough for them

Why do you think teachers haven’t been affected in this way? That we didn’t juggle work and childcare? That we left our kids to fend for themselves whilst we worked? And some of us have primary aged children or even younger.

The thing is, for most of us the whole lockdown/homeschooling/childcare/working full time has been a fuck of a lot harder than it has been for teachers so i think we are well aware of the potential problems ahead in terms of plan B, plan C and beyond.
Teachers I know have been mostly working part time at home because they were looking after their own small children and couldn't work full time-TOTALLY understandable, but unfortunately most employers still expect full time hours if you are being paid full time.

They have stuck to the line that schools have been open all the way through...Ok, but every key worker I know whose kids have been in school have told me that there have been no more than 20 children in at any one time, and two teachers, so it's not really true to say school has been "open", when the other 1.k + children are not in school.

They have gone on and on about how school is not childcare. This one just has to die now, surely?? Of course school is partly childcare. The whole of our working society is set up around school. Lone parents have to look for work when their child starts school BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT KNOWS SCHOOL IS ALSO CHILDCARE.
No one is saying it is not also education, or that childcare is not an important role.
Actually, I think the "school is not childcare" mantra mainly comes from teachers who consider childcare workers to be beneath them, and interestingly all the actual nursery workers I know have been stoically working without half the wailing and fuss.

Lastly:
I've got a plan B for childcare but expect the school to have a plan B to educate my kids if they cannot physically be in school

So you actually have a childminder😂😂😂?

The trouble is, my employer does not have a Plan B for the working hours of parents. You really can't separate school and work. Children being at school enables parents to work and that has been the case for decades. It's unrealistic to suggest otherwise. So unless employers are forced to accommodate home schooling then parents still won't be able to do both that and work.

Why do you think teachers haven’t been affected in this way? That we didn’t juggle work and childcare? That we left our kids to fend for themselves whilst we worked? And some of us have primary aged children or even younger.

This.

What a pointless thread.

The government have made it crystal clear they will not be shutting schools again under any circumstances.
We will have to deal with localised lockdowns which may or may not affect some schools, but we certainly will not be seeing mass closure on a national scale again.

So yes a plan b for a few weeks might be in order should your area be locked down for a short time, but nothing more than that.

It's difficult - parents rely on schools so they can work - some people only get statutory sick pay if they're off sick. Would teachers be happy to get statutory sick pay when they are off due to covid?

Some parents are lucky and may have family who can help out but not everyone is in such a good situation.

There does need to be some urgent thought about how single parents can be supported in the event of a second wave, I agree. I really hope I'm being unduly pessimistic in expecting one.

Why do you think teachers haven’t been affected in this way? That we didn’t juggle work and childcare? That we left our kids to fend for themselves whilst we worked? And some of us have primary aged children or even younger.
As I said, I don't know any teachers who have been working a 40 hour week. Most of them who have young children have been managing maybe 20 hours (still paid full time though), and were supported in their efforts by their schools and told to make sure they relax and get downtime for their mental well being. Great, but NOT the experience of most people!
I can see why so many really really don't want to go back in..