to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@bigglewiggle

I've not seen any teacher say schools shouldn't open. I've seen lots say they want them to open and in such a way that they can be as consistently running for the longest period.

With regards to outbreaks, educational settings had 183 outbreaks in July according to figures from PHE. This was more than any other setting other than care homes. That's with only a small percentage of children back.

Nurseries have been open with their smaller bubbles, much in the same way as Reception classes were throughout June and July. The data shows that the very youngest children have only very small rates of transmission. This isn't the case for latter primary and secondary children.

@Iamnotthe1

I know poor you, here you are with your narrative of how as teachers you're facing the thinnest edge of the wedge.

Then along come us other posters to point out how teaching wouldn't even make the top 50 professions most impacted by covid.

Sorry feel free to continue your pity party with your supporters and ignore us pesky neigh sayers.

[quote Backtobasics5]@SaltyAndFresh rightly so. There’s 2 of you. So one of you can get a job in another field.[/quote]
My DH isn't in education, but yes as I've said, if he ends up losing his job he will have to something on a zero hours basis for the time being.

@Iamnotthe1 but all those measures cant be done you can provide laptops but not all have the internet?
You cant control what interactions families have out of school
Funding for cleaning yes fair enough but plenty of other businesses etc have had to pay for this incl nurseries , childminders etc
Scotland dont seem to be doing too much different , yet i haven't seen the outcry there , they are also
Back so i guess we will see what works
We will likely have closures as normal
Bugs havent gone away either so kids will have temp and have to wait for test etc

I think, actually it has become clear that schools are there for the economic benefit of the country. It seems everyone, except some teachers knew that already.

I never knew this. But always wondered why parents were so happy with substandard education. Happy to send their kids in day after day when they learn next to nothing (in our school round here anyway).

A light bulb has gone on through all of this. School is just childcare for so many people. That's why they don't seem to give two hoots about their children's education.

@Sometimeswinning just like hotels often do, many many schools have limiters on windows to stop people falling (or climbing) out. If there's a fire, we use the stairs.

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@lamnothrone do we really have to only rely on goverment to tell us everything surely if schiools closed as a provider of education you do what you can to still educate and as a responsible parent you do your best to make sure tour child engages
The curriculum was likely stopped aa we were in the beginning of a pandemic and they knew schools were not already for online learning of the whole curriculum or parents able to homeschool
But some schools appeared to not bother at all [/quote]
Agreed - that's why I'm glad it's a requirement now and that remote learning, if needed, should be of higher quality.

You would hope teachers and parents would try to ensure education continued to happen. Unfortunately, you only have to look at the number of "I'm sacking off home learning" posts on here to realise that that wasn't always the case - rightly or wrongly.

[quote WeakAsIAm]**@Iamnotthe1

I know poor you, here you are with your narrative of how as teachers you're facing the thinnest edge of the wedge.

Then along come us other posters to point out how teaching wouldn't even make the top 50 professions most impacted by covid.

Sorry feel free to continue your pity party with your supporters and ignore us pesky neigh sayers. [/quote]
I've not claimed that teaching is the thinnest edge of the wedge. Actually, on other threads, I've actively said it wasn't and, one this one, have acknowledged the struggles faced by other secures. I've never once made the "doctors get this... supermarket workers get this..." argument as I don't think that's valid or important, quite frankly.

I'm not sure why you are attempting to rewrite my narrative as something of your own creation...

OP what back up do you expect parents to have? What a luxury that you seem to have options! No, not all parents have a plan B, they simply can’t! I don’t have any parents or inlaws (dead or very ill) not any friends or other family to look after my children for hours whilst I work.
If a child was sick pre pandemic time’s, my DH or I could take the odd day here and there. We can’t take weeks off work if schools close. There will be 1000’s if parents in my situation and it will mean people resigning / losing jobs, homes, security and relying on benefits. No school for some people means a devastating Life change severely disadvantaging the whole family. This change will quite probably be life lasting for many in this situation.
Have an ounce of empathy and thoughtfulness

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@Iamnotthe1 but all those measures cant be done you can provide laptops but not all have the internet?
You cant control what interactions families have out of school
Funding for cleaning yes fair enough but plenty of other businesses etc have had to pay for this incl nurseries , childminders etc
Scotland dont seem to be doing too much different , yet i haven't seen the outcry there , they are also
Back so i guess we will see what works
We will likely have closures as normal
Bugs havent gone away either so kids will have temp and have to wait for test etc

[/quote]
There was the promise of providing internet access for disadvantaged students through 'dongle' style connections but it didn't materialise.

I agree regarding the interactions and I think that's a really difficult one. Scotland managed to get the levels of Covid-19 in their communities really quite low before schools reopened, in part through more stringent lockdown measures initially. England hasn't managed to do this and it will be essential for keeping schools open for longer.

many many schools have limiters on windows to stop people falling (or climbing) out. If there's a fire, we use the stairs.

Yes, because fires avoid stairs!

One of the schools I work with have old style sash windows. They are crumbling and very draughty. School hasn’t got the money to replace them, so the quick fix is to glue the windows together to stop the draught but obviously this will stop them opening too! I wonder if other countries have similar issues with their school premises. Never mind the frequent sewage leaks we have, to be fair COVID is probably the least of our worries.

many many schools have limiters on windows to stop people falling (or climbing) out. If there's a fire, we use the stairs.

Yes, because fires avoid stairs!

What do you want us to say? Yes, some of the windows do not open - some of ours have been painted shut, for example.

@WeakAsIAm

I'm not sure why you are attempting to rewrite my narrative as something of your own creation...

I'm not sure why as a teacher you hold the attitude that because I don't have the same opinion as you I have no right to express it.

Your students have my deepest sympathy.

You absolutely have every right to express it - I'm glad you do. You should question what I'm saying in the same way that I should question you. We should both be able to discuss, debate and justify our viewpoints - why is that an issue?

My students have been and will be quite happy - don't worry. The families at my school have been delighted with what we have offered them and are exceptionally supportive of us.

@Sometimeswinning

many many schools have limiters on windows to stop people falling (or climbing) out. If there's a fire, we use the stairs.

Yes, because fires avoid stairs!

You asked. I told you.

[quote Iamnotthe1]@Notfeelinggreattoday
I've posted this a couple of times so it's a copy and paste from another of my posts. I'm not saying all of these things are required: just things to consider.

The measures depend on where you are coming from.

If you want to decrease the likelihood of closures, greater measures need to exist in the classroom and, as the scientific advisors have stated, in the community itself.

School-based measures could be secure funding for enhanced cleaning, the use of visors or windowed face coverings or screens to help reduce transmission, the tightening of restrictions on the attendance of unwell children, etc.

Community-based measures could be things like better distancing for families and their children, possible restrictions on how open our society is (as stated by the scientific advisors) and making it easier for parents to take leave to care for an unwell child or one who is having to isolate due to a positive result from someone else in the classroom (this would include Government support for the businesses that this affected).

If you want to decrease the disruption but not the likelihood then there needs to be support and funding put in place to ensure that all students can access online learning platforms. This includes investment in technology (that was said was coming but didn't) and in training for staff and online tutorials for parents to help them access a digital platform such as Google Classroom[/quote]
Great post.

Teachers: don’t engage with the pandemic deniers.

They’re toxic.

I can wfh, happy for. Ds to be at home but the schools should actually teach him,. That would be a compromise, however that appears to be. A no as well. It is up to the schools to work this out with the government Imo. I spent plenty of time trying to work and teach in between on line meetings etc, working extra hours to make up for teaching,. It. It is the school's job now Imo.

@lamnothrone some parts of england do have low community levels
Scotland have had some higher levels recently hence lockdown in aberdeen i assume schools fell into this as well or was it just before they went back ?

@WeakAsIAm

You absolutely have every right to express it - I'm glad you do. You should question what I'm saying in the same way that I should question you. We should both be able to discuss, debate and justify our viewpoints - why is that an issue?

You held issue with my right to an opinion:

Your 'what about...' style arguments end up just being strawmen that distract from making any real progress to a solution for the issues being raised. Unless that's your aim, I don't see the purpose of offering out those strawmen.

So which is it? Do I have a right to opinion or are you continuing to monologue?

Aww I do hope your students/parents do hold you in high esteem, the general flavour around here suggests you may be a little deluded.

My issue was not with your right to an opinion. My issue was with the use of "what about" style tactics. As I said, these are typically used to distract from the main argument and prevent people coming to a solution.

"Donald Trump is commiting crimes in office,"
"What about Hilary's emails?"

"Dominic Cummings has broken lockdown,"
"What about that Labour MP?"

They just set up strawmen. If that's what you want to do then go right ahead but don't come for me when I call the arguments out as being hollow.

Your personal opinion of me holds little weight so feel free to think I'm deluded or feel bad for my students or any other personal insults you wish to throw my way.

It’s a troll, Iam

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@lamnothrone some parts of england do have low community levels
Scotland have had some higher levels recently hence lockdown in aberdeen i assume schools fell into this as well or was it just before they went back ?[/quote]
They do, which is brilliant. It's especially true even when you break down some of the higher level areas by postcode - all hopeful there but I do wish we were further along like Scotland was.

I believe the Aberdeen lockdown was put in place just before schools went back (maybe 4 or 5 days ahead of it) but I could be wrong.

Lots of teachers are already back teaching. Sports coaches are already teaching. I walked past a boxing gym the other night and it was full. No one had PPE on. England school teachers will be back in a couple of weeks. The schools will open and they will do their best to stay open.

COVID is going to be here a long time. We are going to have to get used to it. Otherwise you need to lock yourself away forever.