to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@WeakAsIAm

The reality is Covid has changed everyday life for almost everybody, if it hasn't for you then please let me in on your secret.

Almost everybody in the world has had to adapt, that's what we're doing adapting.

Maintaining this attitude of it can't be done makes you part of the problem. Stop finding the obstacles and look for solutions, teachers are not being singled out whilst we all go around unfazed.

Get yourselves up to speed and adapt your industry to fit this new world, because failure to adapt will make you obsolete.

Bring on the robot teachers!

@Codexdivinchi

Venicelover it’s quite clear you were in the privileged position to be a one salary family or you chose to take government top ups and that one if you were willing to sacrifice a career.

Many people are not or didn’t want to take government top up or give their career up.

No one could have planned for a pandemic - you didn’t either.

None of this has effected you that’s why you can look down your nose or not show empathy for millions of families that are really struggling right now.

Are your kids even in school right now or have they finished?

It wasn't a privileged position, we bought a house with the idea of one salary funding it. We could have done otherwise as many people did/do.

I have never claimed a penny from the state,
as we have never needed to. I understand that we have been lucky in the respect that one of us has remained in work and been well paid all our lives, but we did think through what having children would mean for us and acted accordingly.

I am certainly not looking down my nose at anyone but it seems to ruffle feathers when I say that choices have consequences. You make them and you live with them.

We made ours in part because we had a family friend whose young child became seriously (terminally) ill and they had real problems with work/bills/mortgages because they had relied on both salaries.

We learned from that and planned accordingly.

Neither of us sacrificed a career, we have both had well paid graduate roles.

I have been affected by the pandemic in that we have both worked from home since March.

My kids are not still in school but that is irrelevant to the point I am making.

It need not be a pandemic that causes real issues, it could be a myriad of scenarios that happen every day to someone somewhere.

children need an education and we need to do whatever that takes to make it happen.

Except that the government and various lobby groups are not allowing this to happen.

@WeakAsIAm

Maintaining this attitude of it can't be done makes you part of the problem. Stop finding the obstacles and look for solutions, teachers are not being singled out whilst we all go around unfazed.

And we do find solutions. Lots of them. But some things are out of our hands due to the rooms and buildings that we’re in, or the rules our heads/LEAs/Academy Trusts set out for us to follow.

Look at my post at 20:42. What would you do about those problems? (I’m genuinely interested to hear. Sometimes when you’re too close to something, it’s harder to see an answer.)

@upsidedownwavylegs

* Maybe you missed my post where I explained that before we had kids we made sure that we didn't need two salaries to fund the family?

We only moved to a house where we did when the kids were in secondary school.

My point is that we all make choices and sometimes when the shit hits the fan we have to live with choices that now don't suit. It doesn't have to be a pandemic it could be any one of a hundred scenarios that would impact on needing childcare.

If anticipating that and planning housing/careers accordingly, makes me holier than though, so be it. We refer to call it forward planning and thinking 'what if' before we jump in with both feet.

Tough, that is life, it really isn't anyone's fault it is just the way it is.*

No I didn’t miss it, but I presumed your university-educated brain would be able to comprehend that society as it is wouldn’t be able to function if everyone had gone with the same family model?

Out of interest, what was the scenario plan for if you or your husband had died and that person’s salary and/or capacity for childcare was no longer available to your family, and no other childcare options were available?

Insurance, lots of it to fund an alternative.

WeakAsIAm
Get yourselves up to speed and adapt your industry to fit this new world,

spoken like someone that hasn't got a clue.

because failure to adapt will make you obsolete.

Yup, there are thousands of people wanting to become teachers.
Oh hang on there is a major shortage of teachers because no-one wants to do it.

Ah here well thank god you were better prepared than your silly friends with their terminally ill child. But you know, it was simply that their actions had consequences.

We can all play the victim card if we want to do so.

@Venicelover Ah, silly me, I missed out an option when I suggested you either were stupid, misogynist or a troll. I forgot to include ‘utter cunt’.

But it’s great that you’ve now identified yourself clearly because it means I no longer feel the urge to engage with you.

@Venicelover Same here - excellent life insurance for both DH and myself as we have no family to take care of DCs.

I'm a key worker and have been trying to juggle work and homeschooling / childcare since March.

I don't want my daughter back in school for "economic convenience" or "babysitting," I want her back there because I am not a qualified teacher. Teaching is a skilled job and despite the frankly ludicrous number of qualifications I have, teaching is not in my skill set.

If it were about economic convenience or childcare I'd take her out of school and look for a nanny-share.

@upsidedownwavylegs

Ah here well thank god you were better prepared than your silly friends with their terminally ill child. But you know, it was simply that their actions had consequences.

You know that wasn't what I meant, but if it suits your agenda go for it.

They told us very clearly that they wished they that had not got the expensive house needing two salaries, as it all paled into insignificance when their child was diagnosed. It taught us a lesson.

@NewKittyMeow

We can all play the victim card if we want to do so.

@Venicelover Ah, silly me, I missed out an option when I suggested you either were stupid, misogynist or a troll. I forgot to include ‘utter cunt’.

But it’s great that you’ve now identified yourself clearly because it means I no longer feel the urge to engage with you.

Hit a nerve did I?

You can dish it out but you can't take it.

You are reading into my posts what is not there.

@LauraMipsum

And the teachers will want her back for the exact same reason.

Good luck to those arguing that they shouldn't have to make a Plan B. I hope you don't need one but I suspect you will.

They told us very clearly that they wished they that had not got the expensive house needing two salaries, as it all paled into insignificance when their child was diagnosed. It taught us a lesson.

Right, and are you capable of getting your head around the notion that this ‘lesson’ is one that could only be ‘taught’ to an extremely privileged minority of people?

Just pointing out that anyone who suggests mentioning a child’s rare genetic illness is ‘playing the victim card’ is a bit of a twat. Obviously that’s hit a bit of a nerve with you but if the cap fits! I’m not sure what nerve you think you hit with me though! Though I’m not surprised you’re getting a bit confused, your posts throughout this thread have shown you couldn’t spot the point if it hit you in the face with a 2x4.

VeniceLover I think it’s fairly normal for married working couples to buy houses based on both salaries.

You make it sound like that’s irresponsible. It may have been your decision to buy a house on one salary but that’s probably not common.

Salty all your talk of plan Bs isn't helping. Some people just don't have one. I certainly don't. I'm a teacher, if school shuts I'll have a 3yo and 8mo at home. Literally nothing I can do about it.

SaltyandFresh I’ve not heard one poster say they shouldn’t have a plan b. Some have said they HAVE no plan b.

Have some empathy.

@Hercwasonaroll

children need an education and we need to do whatever that takes to make it happen.

I haven't seen anyone say they want schools shut.

Small adjustments, extra funding would make the difference.

Welcome to the public sector.....

This is what lots of us are dealing with in a wide range of sectors

I definitely think people (and this includes me) who have a plan b are in a position of privilege. I support teachers' right to stay safe, but I don't think we should be getting into a sneery "good luck with not having a plan b" type thing. Those of us who don't need the childcare are extremely lucky if schools do close. Mind you, it's the first time I've considered it a privilege in economic terms to be a SAHM! Normally we are the lowest of the low on MN when it comes to financial issues, so, swings and roundabouts.

Yup, there are thousands of people wanting to become teachers.
Oh hang on there is a major shortage of teachers because no-one wants to do it.

There are bigger healthcare shortages, but even with my length of experience and knowledge I'm not arrogant or conceited enough to believe I would not be replaced without a second thought.

But I'm glad you are confident you and your colleagues will not be replaced by whatever means necessary. I'm sure the history teachers among you will confirm entire industries have never been turned out of their 'secure job' because they refused to dance to the masters tune.

There are laws in the UK entitling children to an education, the government have a higher priorities.

But please continue with the obtuse belief you are all special.

@SueEllenMishke
Welcome to the public sector.....

This is what lots of us are dealing with in a wide range of sectors

So let's continue to highlight it and push for change for the better. Surely that's better than just accepting it.

[quote Hercwasonaroll]@Bellrings44

Fully aware of this. However if a child has symptoms at school and is sent home I'd quite like to see a negative test result before they come back (if before 10 day isolation is up).[/quote]
You didn’t imply that. Don’t assume the worst if schools don’t last they will have to shut. Borris then will have to re think.

Good luck with that one hospitals don’t print Covid results off and give them to patients generally.

Good luck to those arguing that they shouldn't have to make a Plan B. I hope you don't need one but I suspect you will.

In the entire 31 pages of this thread absolutely nobody has said that.