to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@Livelovebehappy

Teachers won’t be resigning. It’s their career. Not as if they can resign and go work in another school, as all in the same situation. What will the teachers do once they’ve resignedThere are no jobs. We are in a recession.

As i have already posted I know teacher that have already resigned. I know more that are seeing how the half term goes before they put in their resignation.

I think that people think that all teachers can do is teach.
Its a shame that they don't look at the transferable skills that teachers have.

@Juststopswimming

Newkittymeow - all of what you have said and then some.

If I hear the phrase "school is not a babysitting service" one more time.....!

Exactly! Ok, it’s not a babysitting service but school is there to educate children, which allows their parents to go to with, which means they pay taxes, which, you know, keeps the economy going.

The best option for schools will be cleaning and hand washing. Schools, teachers and pupils are going to have to find new routines to incorporate that into their day.

Where do we get the extra sinks?

• Maybe you missed my post where I explained that before we had kids we made sure that we didn't need two salaries to fund the family?

We only moved to a house where we did when the kids were in secondary school.

My point is that we all make choices and sometimes when the shit hits the fan we have to live with choices that now don't suit. It doesn't have to be a pandemic it could be any one of a hundred scenarios that would impact on needing childcare.

If anticipating that and planning housing/careers accordingly, makes me holier than though, so be it. We refer to call it forward planning and thinking 'what if' before we jump in with both feet.

Tough, that is life, it really isn't anyone's fault it is just the way it is.*

No I didn’t miss it, but I presumed your university-educated brain would be able to comprehend that society as it is wouldn’t be able to function if everyone had gone with the same family model?

Out of interest, what was the scenario plan for if you or your husband had died and that person’s salary and/or capacity for childcare was no longer available to your family, and no other childcare options were available?

@Hercwasonaroll children are not the ones that have been the most affected. It has been mainly the adults.

Children often don’t show signs of having COVID-19

@Venicelover. before we had kids we made sure that we didn't need two salaries to fund the family

It's great that this worked for your family on an individual level.

If everyone did this, very few people would be able to have children and society would be fucked. We already have a shortage of babies as more young women are voting with their feet and delaying motherhood or giving it a miss altogether.

@Hercwasonaroll

Surely the discussion could be zoom based? Is there a reason for face to face interaction?

Yeah that doesn't work. Online discussions are not nearly as effective as in person. My students are training for a profession and they deserve to experience the teaching that best suits their needs and the needs of the profession.

Venicelover it’s quite clear you were in the privileged position to be a one salary family or you chose to take government top ups and that one if you were willing to sacrifice a career.

Many people are not or didn’t want to take government top up or give their career up.

No one could have planned for a pandemic - you didn’t either.

None of this has effected you that’s why you can look down your nose or not show empathy for millions of families that are really struggling right now.

Are your kids even in school right now or have they finished?

[quote motherrunner]@noblegiraffe Absolutely. On another thread when I was concerned about flooding in front of teenagers due to having just one break a day come Sept, I was told that I had problem as it was unnatural that a tampon wouldn’t last 6 hours.

You’d expect more empathy from women.[/quote]
Yeah, I saw that and it was shocking.

What is also notable that nurses and care homes workers were also dropped in the shit and they are also predominantly female professions.

And we can't educate pupils if we have to keep closing because of outbreaks. So why isn't the government putting in the time and money needed to keep schools open?

@NewKittyMeow

And for what it’s worth, we have enough in savings and are paid enough that one of us could quit work - but what I don’t have is the skills to teach a 5 year old with suspected ADHD due to a very rare genetic illness. Silly me, not planning for that, eh?! If only I was as smart and forward planning as you!

We can all play the victim card if we want to do so.

Your child will be in school being taught by professionals from September if it is safe to do so and if it remains safe to do so. If that situation changes is what we are discussing.

You have the option to stay at home or for your partner to stay at home if necessary. Which is my point.

What exactly is yours?

SueEllenMishke

Hahaha nice one. I don't get to make that decision.

Neither do the teachers

We are doing a mixture of in person and remote learning. That is what is in the best interest of the students and their learning.

I wouldn't be so crass as to question your knowledge of what is required in your subject.

You've obviously missed the numerous threads slagging off academics and universities for resorting to online learning....

Sorry, I've been a little busy, trying to get people to stop butchering teachers, and hadn't had time to look for fights elsewhere. (that sounds sarcastic in my head and I am actually quite sincere about it.)

@noblegiraffe

Has no one noticed that the teaching workforce is predominantly female so the mostly male government is sending a mostly female workforce into unsafe working conditions with no mitigation.

And Mumsnet think that teachers should just suck it up.

Depressing.

Likewise with nursing and care homes - but they had to go in. What should we do close schools indefinitely and make teachers redundant.

@mbosnz

I agree, I think this is a deliberate plan of divide and conquer, easily attainable, because it's fairly bloody standard, this mistrust and lack of good faith, let alone respect, between parent and teachers/school.

So easy to manipulate for their own nasty little purposes.

Meanwhile, our kids are suffering. Badly.

I agree.

It amazes me that so few actually see this.

@Bellrings44

Fully aware of this. However if a child has symptoms at school and is sent home I'd quite like to see a negative test result before they come back (if before 10 day isolation is up).

I do sympathise with teachers in this position.

But there seems to be a pretty unpleasant tone to this post with the implicit assumption that anyone who hasn't got around to putting this perfect "ecosystem" in place is somehow morally at fault. Yes people do rely on schools for childcare. And honestly, can you not see why this should be the case? They rely on schools for childcare because its one of the only things standing between them and destitution.

The OP informs us rather smugly of her plan B which involves she and her DH having to reduce their hours etc. Well, bully for the OP.

Well some of us can't reduce our hours. I am a single parent, sole breadwinner, no childcare other than that which I pay for (which you may remember disappeared for three and a half months). No family who can support and DC's dad isn't on the scene.

It goes without saying therefore that my Plan B would in a best case scenario be more miserable months of shoving my DD in front of YouTube while I desperately try to work, or in a worst case scenario losing my job, and thus my home. The OP's post implies that my failure to plan for this will have somehow brought this on my head and I will deserve this for not doing my homework properly. Should I have chosen a more predictable partner? Should my parents have had children younger so they would be less ill or infirm? Those eventualities would all have put me in a stronger position in this pandemic, for sure. But talk about brutal and judgemental.

I get, OP, that teachers have have a rough ride, and I get that a lot of exasperated parents have been intemperate and unreasonable in some of their posts. I get why you are angry and anxious.

But please have the self-awareness to realise that no one choses school as childcare out of some sense of being entitled or thinking teachers are beneath them. People use school as childcare because it literally is their only option. And for that they deserve sympathy and better planning and consideration, primarily from the government but also, yes, from schools. Not contempt for not having exactly the right conditions in place to conjure up this magical Plan B.

I've been through five months of hell and somehow its my fault, for not having a DH, not having a magical network of "Plan B" people to step in for me. Your post has made me really quite angry.

We can all play the victim card if we want to do so.

God, it’s really going to serve you right when your rich husband fucks you off.

@FrippEnos

SueEllenMishke

Hahaha nice one. I don't get to make that decision.

Neither do the teachers

We are doing a mixture of in person and remote learning. That is what is in the best interest of the students and their learning.

I wouldn't be so crass as to question your knowledge of what is required in your subject.

You've obviously missed the numerous threads slagging off academics and universities for resorting to online learning....

Sorry, I've been a little busy, trying to get people to stop butchering teachers, and hadn't had time to look for fights elsewhere. (that sounds sarcastic in my head and I am actually quite sincere about it.)

I work in an education faculty. I'm seriously concerned about the impact of the lack of education on disadvantaged children.

Although my personal circumstances really do need schools to open I'm also viewing this from a professional perspective- children need an education and we need to do whatever that takes to make it happen.

The reality is Covid has changed everyday life for almost everybody, if it hasn't for you then please let me in on your secret.

Almost everybody in the world has had to adapt, that's what we're doing adapting.

Maintaining this attitude of it can't be done makes you part of the problem. Stop finding the obstacles and look for solutions, teachers are not being singled out whilst we all go around unfazed.

Get yourselves up to speed and adapt your industry to fit this new world, because failure to adapt will make you obsolete.

@BBCONEANDTWO
What should we do close schools indefinitely and make teachers redundant.

No teacher has stated that schools should not open in September. We want to be back, desperately so. And we will be stood at the door welcoming the children of our community and giving them the education they deserve. We'll be supporting them academically, emotionally and mentally as we always have done. We'd just like a little more thought to go into how we can do that in a way that is more sustainable in the long term and won't result in future closures, isolations and any damage to learning.

children need an education and we need to do whatever that takes to make it happen.

I haven't seen anyone say they want schools shut.

Small adjustments, extra funding would make the difference.

Well somebody has to be prepared to look after them when they are sent home.
Argue as much as you like about whose responsibility it is, but it won't solve the problem.
Nor will lashing out at the teachers.
Some people will have to make sacrifices ito career, finances and lifestyle choice.
The world is changing and we have to adapt, if this situation doesn't apply to you, there are others that do.

LemonTT

The best option for schools will be cleaning and hand washing. Schools, teachers and pupils are going to have to find new routines to incorporate that into their day.

We don't have the facilities for our entire school to be doing this.

Before we have the "can't do attitude" bullshit, we have concocted a work around.

By the time we have enacted our new routines, we think that out hour long lessons will be 45 minutes long.

Get yourselves up to speed and adapt your industry to fit this new world, because failure to adapt will make you obsolete.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@WeakAsIAm
Get yourselves up to speed and adapt your industry to fit this new world, because failure to adapt will make you obsolete

Teachers and schools are trying to do this, as they have been since lockdown first began. They are being stopped by people in Government who have no to little understanding of education or learning beyond their own schooling years ago.