to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@SueEllenMishke

I'm finding your ambivalence strange.

You admit you'll be going into an unsafe environment in September with lectures/classes. Yet seem to be of the "suck it up" school of thinking.

I'm well aware the public sector is underfunded. I've seen the effects of the cuts in the last 10+ years.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't put pressure on the government to fund the return to school.

@WhereTheCrawdadsSing

I definitely think people (and this includes me) who have a plan b are in a position of privilege. I support teachers' right to stay safe, but I don't think we should be getting into a sneery "good luck with not having a plan b" type thing. Those of us who don't need the childcare are extremely lucky if schools do close. Mind you, it's the first time I've considered it a privilege in economic terms to be a SAHM! Normally we are the lowest of the low on MN when it comes to financial issues, so, swings and roundabouts.

There will be a lot of SAHM at this rate... and those that seem smug may find that the wind quickly blows!

Good luck with that one hospitals don’t print Covid results off and give them to patients generally.

Generally you don't go anywhere near a hospital for a covid test

So yeah, I'll just pay a nanny a retainer in case my kids school close

Seriously, what plan b do you think most working parents have? Most employers have been very understanding of the childcare issue due to lockdown however it can't go on for much longer.

Most people's ONLY other option would be for the lower wage earner to give up work, which would be economically terrible.

If school isn't childcare then it shouldn't be compulsory so that parents can have childcare.

We have just asked for sight of the text sent through with the result. ( and yes, I know we can't ask, but thankfully our parents have been forthcoming when we have explained the alternative is isolation!)

There will be a lot of SAHM at this rate... and those that seem smug may find that the wind quickly blows!

Given the recession coming (which, unlike more school closures, is a certainty) I think families wishing they had a SAHP will be balanced if not outnumbered by those wishing they hadn't decide to rely solely or almost solely on one income.

Generally you don't go anywhere near a hospital for a covid test

No but your swab does, labs & technicians generating the result tend to be in the hospital not hidden behind the plastic booth in the car park!!!

@NewKittyMeow

Just pointing out that anyone who suggests mentioning a child’s rare genetic illness is ‘playing the victim card’ is a bit of a twat. Obviously that’s hit a bit of a nerve with you but if the cap fits! I’m not sure what nerve you think you hit with me though! Though I’m not surprised you’re getting a bit confused, your posts throughout this thread have shown you couldn’t spot the point if it hit you in the face with a 2x4.

It wasn't that you mentioned it, more the manner in which you mentioned it. Have a look back if you don't understand what I mean.

The only nerve you have hit with me is to realise that the old adage that if you can't debate rationally resort to personal attack and gutter language, is a truism. I obviously hit a nerve as you needed to resort to that form of attack.

@Nicknacky, maybe it isn't common, but it was a few years ago when being a SAHP was more common. We did it for the reasons given.

@upsidedownwavylegs I think that depends on your point of view and what is considered most important. If you can't buy a house in a given area without two salaries and can't move to a cheaper area, then it is an issue, if you choose to have the 4 bed detached ensuite, large garden over a two-bed terrace, then you have the answer.

Of course it goes to a lab. But the lab doesn't print the result and hand it you does it?! A text/email gets sent.

Fuck me some of the posts on here are stupid.

@Trashtara
School isn't compulsory, education is.

VeniceLover Why shouldn’t a working couple buy a house with both their salaries combined? I don’t want to live in a cheaper area when I can afford the house I’m in (Covid notwithstanding).

You have a bizarre attitude toward women working.

I think the government need a plan B.

YANBU to think schools won't be open for long with the current plans, as they are not safe (especially secondaries with their massive 'bubbles').

It would help a lot if the government made plans now to make schools safer, eg allowing PPE for those who want it, daily temperature checks, additional cleaning, better test and trace. They also need to underwrite sick pay for people who need to isolate (so that they don't go into work with mild symptoms and send their kids into school when they should be getting tested, because they can't afford to be off).

I would like to see blended learning for secondary kids from the start of term, unless they are vulnerable the childcare aspect is less of an issue. It would mean they can social distance and reduce the transmission risks, therefore less risk of school closures.

And they should remove the threat of fines so that if some parents choose to keep their kids off for now, or prefer to just send them in part-time, they are able to do so. Less kids in school will reduce the risks to all. Welfare checks could be done for those who haven't returned to school.

Presumably, if there are local lockdowns, school will stay open for keyworker children as they did before, unless the actual school has had an outbreak, in which case that will be closed too. Parents need support with their employment rights if they need to take time out because of this, it's something the government do need to address.

It's all a massive mess, and the handling of things so far by this government doesn't fill me with great confidence :-( I would love to be proven wrong though.

My dc swimming lessons have started. At one time there are about 30 kids entering the pool side and thirty leaving it. So around 180 kids per evening session.

Kids line up by the teacher and do the register then get in the pool. Teachers are crouched down talking to kids whilst in the pool, the teachers are easily less than one meter away as the pool acoustics make it loud. Not seen one teacher with a face mask on.

Business as usual.

What planet are you on? Not everyone is in a position to have endless backup plans - especially in this situation where "plan B" would have been rendered obeslete by, for example, older grandparents having to shield, or the ban on mixing households meaning babysitting was less accessible.

Also, I don't think any body sees school as childcare, but for those of us who must work or choose to, the fact is that children are normally in school between 9 and 3 and parents tend to plan working hours around that structure.

But spanieleyes you don't get private tutors like you used to (like how the queen was educated). You can't really find non-school ways of educating kids that don't involve large amounts of parental involvement. If I could, I would.

@Hardbackwriter

There will be a lot of SAHM at this rate... and those that seem smug may find that the wind quickly blows!

Given the recession coming (which, unlike more school closures, is a certainty) I think families wishing they had a SAHP will be balanced if not outnumbered by those wishing they hadn't decide to rely solely or almost solely on one income.

Exactly! I don't think there will be any winners or smugness here tbh. It could be just as bad for families with one salary if one of them loses that salary. Which I can definitely see happening .

And what about parents who had two good salaries, then one has to give up work and THEN the economy goes to shit and the only remaining salary goes? Not exactly a good time for people to have to go down to one salary per couple is it?

*Of course it goes to a lab. But the lab doesn't print the result and hand it you does it?! A text/email gets sent.

Fuck me some of the posts on here are stupid.*

No the lab completes the electronic record which accessed by an admin person who generates the result. But the admin person isn't sat at the testing pod either.

I agree about the posters, I'm coming around to the idea of my kids not returning to school at all. I have no idea what some would have to offer even my primary aged child

I'm glad I'm in a better emotional place than I was a few months ago, when the teacher bashing on Mumsnet really kicked in, because in this thread I've been called stupid, nasty, lazy and cruel. You can call me what you like but that doesn't make it physically possible for schools to stay open if teachers become ill because they're working in unsafe conditions. I suggest that if you don't like this potential scenario, you get behind school staff in demanding plans for better safety measures.

I don’t know anyone who has a Plan b as there isn’t one.

School isn't compulsory, education is.

Then why are parents fined for their children's non-attendance? Even if overall the children are receiving an adequate education.

If school isn't childcare then it shouldn't be compulsory so that parents can have childcare.

I agree. Our neighbours have said they would manage much better without part-time school pick-ups and drop-offs. School for them was getting in the way of managing working from home and caring for their children. I think they should have the option to keep their kids at home until schools go back full-time. Especially because children could then be sent to grandparents to be cared for if that's an option where the grandparents don't live near enough to do school pick-ups and drop-offs.

Deciding to buy a house you can afford on one salary is all well and good if that one salary is large and so you're still getting a nice house, just not luxury. For us it would have meant a flat on a sink estate rather than a smallish house in a nice area with a good primary school; I personally think it would have been totally mad to choose the former as the place to raise our children on the off-chance that there was a global pandemic.

@Nicknacky

VeniceLover Why shouldn’t a working couple buy a house with both their salaries combined? I don’t want to live in a cheaper area when I can afford the house I’m in (Covid notwithstanding).

You have a bizarre attitude toward women working.

I don't differentiate between the genders. Why are my posts being taken as being directed towards women? It is a family/couple thing to decide who might need to be a SAHP if an issue occurs.

I am not for one moment saying you should not live where or how you want to live or to use both salaries. Your life, your choice.

I am saying in circumstances such as we have now, and in other circumstances, that choice has consequences and in this case, it is not down to the teaching profession to take risks to facilitate the choices you made. That responsibility falls to you and your partner.

@SaltyAndFresh

Good luck to those arguing that they shouldn't have to make a Plan B. I hope you don't need one but I suspect you will.

See so goody...

I do wonder at these ‘teacher’ posts. Sunday night bunfight.

This is really not my experience with teachers at all. The ones I’ve spoken to are eager to get back.

I suggest that if you don't like this potential scenario, you get behind school staff in demanding plans for better safety measures

Totally agree with this^^. I have no idea why parents would object to measures such as PPE. It may help keep schools open, which would be better all round I think.

Insurance, lots of it to fund an alternative

You just keep spouting utter bollocks, don’t you??
We have insurance - and ‘lots of it’ but that costs MONEY. I reckon we pay well over £100 a month on income protection and life insurance etc.... there are plenty of people up and down the country that couldn’t afford to do this. Nor could they afford a house on one salary etc etc
FWIW - I am saying this from a position of privilege myself. We have a house on one salary - we have loads of ‘plan Bs’ in place should we need them but I am not sitting here in an ivory fucking tower telling the rest of the population that they shouldn’t be playing the victim and should have thought harder before they started a family.

You have no idea what other people’s circumstances are. I find your posts, peppered with stealth boasts and finger wagging, utterly abhorrent.

I sincerely hope that nothing ever happens to you or your family that you didn’t plan for (because it’s impossible to plan for every single scenario) or you’ll be eating your words.