to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@Pancakebreakiii

This virus is going to be around for a long time. We have to get used to living with it

Exactly why we should be doing everything we can to ensure schools can stay open as long as possible and as consistently as possible. That's the only way to minimise any disruption to our children's education.

Dragonsanddinosaurs
I find the can't do attitude that seems to be displayed by a lot of teachers on here really depressing.

What can't do attitude is that?

Could you be specific?

Well, if you’re prepared to repay all the taxpayer’s money you’ve received for sitting at home not working over the last 6 months then I’ll take you seriously. If not, then perhaps not.

You’ve got to move away in your head from this idea that working parents (by which you mean working mothers but let’s park that) work purely for their own greed and gratification. Do you understand who pays your salary? How the NHS is funded? How rubbish collection, road maintenance and social services are paid for? Why your house has a value? Do you have any comprehension of what might happen if somewhere between 9 and 18 million people suddenly have to drop their hours or quit their jobs? Particularly when our government has already spent billions during this crisis and our economy is in the deepest slump of any major developed nation?

There is simply no getting away from the fact that full time education for under 18s is a massive part of our social and economic structure. It used not to be; it is now. That’s not parents’ fault.

Incidentally, to my knowledge no other country has had to re-close all its schools on a blanket basis. Surely any further outbreaks could be dealt with by temporary closures in affected areas?

@spanieleyes

Bananabread

Don't you think it would be a good idea if I knew that someone sitting in front of me for 6 hours had tested positive?

I do not think we should breach health confidentiality to please you no I don’t or any other teacher. Now let’s get back down to earth.... how would you get the result? Are we going to test the kids every Friday once the kids get home from school and then isolate until we have a result (which is not very reliable at this stage) ?? FFS!!!

@toohot200
What I meant was people doing the right thing...being honest...etc. Sorry wasn't clear.

Like everyone coming together to support everyone having access to the things they need in order to provide the education our children need?

@SaltyAndFresh

I’m not sure what the point of your OP is but it’s pretty goady.

My point is that I'm sick of the 'retail/NHS/care/policing sectors dealt with it so so must you' with apparently no ability to comprehend that schools will have none of the safeguards of those roles and many more prolonged interactions per week than many. And anyway, it's not a race to the bottom. I have no more immunity to this than anyone else and I'm worried about the shit I and other teachers will get if we're unable to work due to illness.

I doubt that those police who dealt with the illegal races/parties were able to SD so I’m sorry I don’t have much sympathy for teachers. There are so many professions that are having to get on with it but somehow teachers are unique.

I think the " can't do" attitude is because what we want to do ( more cleaning, visors, test notifications etc) we aren't allowed to do!

Why are you being so dramatic and argumentative? Are teachers not allowed to view things from their own perspective? Honestly. It's so difficult to have a decent discussion when people are throwing around silly statements like this, designed to insult and upset, and making generalisations about a whole profession.

There’s a lobby group who hate teachers posting shit like this all over Mumsnet, Rocketfueler

They want teachers to have literally no protection in schools and so are desperate to set other parents against teachers to get agreement.

They are a vile bunch of people.

VeniceLover Stop being so ridiculous. I’m not giving up my police career of 18 years and H is not going to shut his company of nearly 30 years (And make his staff redundant and us homeless) on the off chance the schools shut for 14 days.

Good for you you stayed at home, that was your choice.

@Friendsoftheearth

iam

It is the NEC that have caused all of this by making it impossible to open schools, backed by the teachers paying them not the government!!!!!!!!!!

How dare you try and blame others, this is all on you.

Are you drunk?

@spanieleyes

I think the " can't do" attitude is because what we want to do ( more cleaning, visors, test notifications etc) we aren't allowed to do!

Cool, I put it down to posters that don't really have anything to say and just want to be goady.

@SaltyAndFresh

If you can't close you find solutions to make it work. Like every other essential service does

Yes, and this will almost inevitably involve closing to some pupils, some of the time, which parents are going to have to accept and prepare for. Unless your magic solution involves bigger buildings and more staff.

The difference in the NHS and Emergency Services is that they can and do mitigate for staff absences by changing shift patterns and cancelling rest days. This can’t be done in a school as it would also involve changing the school day/week for pupils too and that has a knock on effect for parents.

@minisoksmakehardwork

Parents need a plan B.

There is a growing number of parents who want children back in school at any cost, back to normal with no social distancing and no additional hygiene measures.

If this happens, knowing that the virus spreads well in environments where people are close together, in colder environments (autumn and winter, borne out by outbreaks in food factories), close together and inside, bubbles will pop and schools will close whether we like it or not.

As a parent, I have considered plan B and even plan C. We cannot use relatives as I would not want to put at risk those loved ones who were previously shielding and even now to be fair are reluctant to go out due to the behaviours of others.

So I am already planning for home education again. I never planned on homeschooling my children and I don't want to do it long term. I have only just gone back to work after an 8 year absence due to raising my family. But equally, I do not see why my children and their teachers should be thrown to the lions in the way they are, by people who have access to a wealth of other opportunities for childcare and education just to see what happens when kids return to schools. Because that is how this feels currently.

It feels like our government wants our children to go back to school simply to see what happens. Then schools will be blamed for the spread of the virus in communities, and it will be the schools and the general publics fault for not complying with whichever confusing set of guidelines happen to be in existence at the time.

Yes, we have to live with COVID to an extent. But when there are other alternatives to just having all kids back in all of the time regardless, I think these should be thought about and parents should realise that they cannot truly rely on anyone except themselves for their families right now.

Nurses have kids and all the other medical staff. When you get poorly aside from Covid. How will you be treated? Since all the parents are at home thinking up plan B and C as you are.... honestly what a thread!!

I think it’s the best COVID-19 thread I’ve read yet...

Goady. You know as well as we do that with lockdown/schools closed, many 'Plan B' options just aren't available.

It's not just parents that need schools back-it's the whole eco-system of our economy. Government needs to get people back to work (physically offices, not just WFH) and in doing so get us circulating our £ around the system - petrol, lunches, clothes - the list goes on. With schools closed that's seriously impeded. You are seriously blinkered to put something on parents that is pretty a key part of the system that our whole society is based on. The alternative is a completely new model that has repercussions we can't possibly know for example returning to single breadwinner when most homes need 2 mortgage payers now. So, yes - YABU.

Bananabread

If a child is symptomatic they can either isolate for 10 days or take a test. If they do take a test, I really don't think it is unreasonable for the school to be told the result.

Also you know what while in lockdown at the start my kids school were rubbish. So not only was both me and DH working we were also teaching our kids. Some of the quality of work coming from the school is was shocking. So actually don’t assume that parents were sat around moaning about it most I know were finding solutions.

[quote Hercwasonaroll]**@SueEllenMishke

Are you really? Most lecturers I have spoken to see going online only and 1-2 small group tutorials a week.

How are university making that covid secure?

Nurseries completely shut for a while. Many aren't anywhere near full capacity back yet. Health care and carers have PPE.[/quote]
Not @SueEllenMishke but also an academic and we are being told that we are doing a bit online but teaching our classes of 50 face to face, so for our modules of 500 students we will be repeating the same session ten times and presumably spraying covid to all who meet us.

@Monkeynuts18. Completely agree. Actually SAHMs and part-time working mothers are recognised as being something of a drag on the economy (although clearly it may work for individual families, including our own at the moment). We need to be doing everything we can to support mothers to stay in work.

What exactly do you mean by this? If your kids are ‘top of your agenda’ you should have limitless childcare solutions for any unprecedented eventuality?

Our children's teachers are not our/the enemy.

They have valid concerns, for themselves and their students, as to how to safely manage and maintain returning to full time education.

If we listened to these, and advocated for those with the power to make things so, to do so, we'd get much further than we will by fighting the incompetent buffoons who are seeking to pit us against each other's corner.

@Nicknacky

VeniceLover Stop being so ridiculous. I’m not giving up my police career of 18 years and H is not going to shut his company of nearly 30 years (And make his staff redundant and us homeless) on the off chance the schools shut for 14 days.

Good for you you stayed at home, that was your choice.

I am not asking you to do it, I am saying that it should be an option for one of you if required.

If it would not even be an option in the event schools are declared unsafe, then your priorities do not place your children first.

That is fine, but recognise and acknowledge that and don't blame teachers.

This thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3997335-To-think-that-the-government-guidance-isn-t-to-WFH-now

relates to making offices COVID safe for returning to work, it makes an interesting read when weighed against what teachers are asking for and being expected to cope with.

Don’t know why that quote didn’t work - it was for @Venicelover

@Bananabread8

Scenario for you.
Child comes to school with a temperature and is clearly unwell. Sent home and parents asked to get a test. Child returns after one day off. Parents lie they've had a negative test. Child dosed up on calpol and appears OK until about 11.30 and the temperature becomes obvious again. Parents then do take the child for a test and it's positive. An infected child has willingly been exposed to a classroom full of students and staff because parents lied. What if they didn't get the second test and sent the child back again?

"Yes, fuck those parents whose own parents are dead, have disabled children who can’t be cared for by others, etc. Fuck single parents who can’t house their kids if they can’t work. Fuck those on zero hours contracts who don’t get sick pay or holiday.
**
Only a couple of these things apply to me, but I have enough empathy to understand that having a back up plan is a luxury many do not have"

Omg that's exactly what crossed my mind!! Well said. I completely agree.

@lifeafter50

Isee a lot of teachers resigning on or before 31st October (last day possible for leaving at the end of the Autumn term.) No they won't. They will whine and threaten but won't actually do it. There are no cushier jobs out there that they are qualified for

lifeafter50

You’re a teacher, but you really seem to hate other teachers. Poor you, surrounded by them all day! I’d advise you to quit to reduce your stress levels, but sadly there’s no cushier job out there that you’re qualified for.