to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@Nicknacky

VeniceLover I’m intrigued, how can I compromise my plans? (I don’t even realise I had any)!

From your quote....career plans.

VeniceLover So not go to work? Because that’s the extent of my career, frankly.

There isn't some conspiracy against teachers. This is what life is like for lots of people. A lot of things are just based on doing the right thing.

I don't think there's a conspiracy ffs!!

I will go back to school in September and teach happily.

Let's all join forces and agree we need funding to make the reopening as safe as possible.

I’m not sure what your trying to gain from your post OP. We as parents are fully aware it’s not the teachers fault if it goes tits up. Secondly we don’t need you telling us parents we need plan B!!

Teachers are not miracle workers the same way parents bare not either so if teachers need to look after their own kids. Us parents will also be doing the same as before.

But not working hasn’t been an option for them.

Where are all these teachers who aren't going to be working?

Oh gosh, absolutely not. I agree completely - just using my personal example as proof that the lie about 'cushier jobs' was, in fact, a lie. Although, as I said, the retention crisis in education proves that enough for me - all those former teachers are going somewhere...

Not in a massive recession they won't be!

It seems obvious schools can't do much more than they currently are without an injection of funding.
Its as if schools and parents (mostly mothers tbh) have just been left to manage and cope the best they can. It sucks.

Banana It seems so varied.

At our state secondary staff can wear masks, as can students, if they choose.

Very fortunate that cleaning, sanitiser and perspex screens are also in budget. I realise this is not the case at many schools.

@spanieleyes

TheCOVID guidance specifically says that we can NOT ask for proof of a negative test result

Confidentiality...

@toohot200
This is what life is like for lots of people. A lot of things are just based on doing the right thing.

Are they though?
Doing the right thing would be funding quality PPE for the NHS in a way that's consistent rather than giving millions to companies to supply it and then writing it off when they don't.

Doing the right thing would be ensuring a high quality test, track and trace system to keep as many people safe as possible not giving money to a company with no coding experience and them saying we don't need an app anyway.

Doing the right thing would be supplying schools with enough money to buy soap and sanitiser before an outbreak happens instead of just after.

The right thing isn't being done.

schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience

I know teachers hate the idea that this is the case, but actually having your kids in school between 9 and 3 five days a week is a HUGE factor in keeping the economy alive, so yes actually in addition to educating children you ARE there to help allow parents to work and support the economy too.

@SueEllenMishke

Prior to that in this kind of epidemic, the lower earner would have taken unpaid leave or in extremis, given up work.

What if the lower earner loves their career? Has put a lot of time and effort into it?
I'm the lower earner in my relationship- I'm a university academic. I have a PhD and have invested so much in my career.
If I take any kind of break that's my career over .... I'm not prepared to accept that.

Plus, children need to be educated. This is a social justice issue. Denying a whole generation of a proper education would be an absolute disgrace.

I absolutely agree that children need to be educated, but equally, those who educate need to be afforded basic protections to allow them to do their job safely.

If it transpires that infection rates spike when schools re open what options are available?

Do you think schools should stay ope regardless?

With regard to your own career, only you can make that choice, but it is a choice.

Bananabread

Don't you think it would be a good idea if I knew that someone sitting in front of me for 6 hours had tested positive?

OP, this is a really nasty thread. We all know this, are losing sleep over this, and your contempt for parents is nothing short of cruel. We can't all keep nannies on retainer "just in case", and not all of us have family nearby on call

School is childcare, but it is not only childcare. We have organised our society and working lives around schools being open 9-3:30, and the Plan B was to cover normal illness, school holidays and after school club. School is actually a pretty rubbish set up for education - learning with 30 random same-age peers isn't all that efficient for education. I homeschooled a year once while we travelled and managed the curriculum in a couple months. Of course we are all responsible for our own children, but the safety net in this country is not big enough to hold us all if we have to quit our jobs

It is not reasonable for us to walk around with a Plan B in case schools shut. I would love if schools would take precautions and announce my child can only go in two days a week. If so, I would hire a part time nanny ASAP. It doesn't make sense for me to pay a nanny if schools are open. I do not have family nearby. So I wait, nervously, for schools to close and worry about quitting my job

I would love a stable Plan B, I have no idea what that will be, and typically I am an excellent Plan B, C, and D person. OP, I think YOU are in the wrong job.You don't sound very kind, you sound mean and goady. I hope you are not my child's teacher

Great post

I believe schools should be the last to close.

It's morally reprehensible to deny a whole generation of an education

But if more safety measures were put in place, schools could stay open longer!

This virus is going to be around for a long time. We have to get used to living with it

I find the can't do attitude that seems to be displayed by a lot of teachers on here really depressing. I'm sure a lot of NHS staff were terrified going to work during the worst of it, when there were headlines about doctors and nurses dying weekly, but they got on with it. The same with the emergency services. As a PP pointed out the police clearly can't socially distance, and use PPE when they are dealing with anyone violent, which they do on a regular basis. Children need teaching, and while this clearly come with some risk, teaching is an important job, and needs to be done.

There’s no plan B. It’s a shitshow. We all just have to live a weird, semi-hopeful, semi-desperate half-live until they roll out a vaccine. All of us.

@Nicknacky

VeniceLover So not go to work? Because that’s the extent of my career, frankly.

Nicknacky - if you are part of a couple then that may be a choice for one of you, if absolutely necessary. It would be a family decision which parent stayed at home. For lone parents the situation is much harder.

@HandsOffMyRights maybe a thread should be started of the names of the schools which have been granted PPE. Then teachers can pass this info on to the unions and the school heads.

[quote Iamnotthe1]@toohot200
This is what life is like for lots of people. A lot of things are just based on doing the right thing.

Are they though?
Doing the right thing would be funding quality PPE for the NHS in a way that's consistent rather than giving millions to companies to supply it and then writing it off when they don't.

Doing the right thing would be ensuring a high quality test, track and trace system to keep as many people safe as possible not giving money to a company with no coding experience and them saying we don't need an app anyway.

Doing the right thing would be supplying schools with enough money to buy soap and sanitiser before an outbreak happens instead of just after.

The right thing isn't being done.[/quote]
What I meant was people doing the right thing...being honest...etc. Sorry wasn't clear.

@Friendsoftheearth

One thing is for sure the reputation and creditability of the teaching profession lies in absolute tatters after this.

What a disgrace.

Why are you being so dramatic and argumentative? Are teachers not allowed to view things from their own perspective? Honestly. It's so difficult to have a decent discussion when people are throwing around silly statements like this, designed to insult and upset, and making generalisations about a whole profession.

Bananabread8

I can’t understand who decides Who has given Permission for some schools to use PPE and some not? You would think it’s compulsory or not across the board

The DfE guidance is that ppe is not needed. This has been backed by the brain trust that is the government.

Some HTs/Governors/SLT have said that it is the choice of the individual if they want to wear PPE. Others have said no PPE at all.

Parents need a plan B.

There is a growing number of parents who want children back in school at any cost, back to normal with no social distancing and no additional hygiene measures.

If this happens, knowing that the virus spreads well in environments where people are close together, in colder environments (autumn and winter, borne out by outbreaks in food factories), close together and inside, bubbles will pop and schools will close whether we like it or not.

As a parent, I have considered plan B and even plan C. We cannot use relatives as I would not want to put at risk those loved ones who were previously shielding and even now to be fair are reluctant to go out due to the behaviours of others.

So I am already planning for home education again. I never planned on homeschooling my children and I don't want to do it long term. I have only just gone back to work after an 8 year absence due to raising my family. But equally, I do not see why my children and their teachers should be thrown to the lions in the way they are, by people who have access to a wealth of other opportunities for childcare and education just to see what happens when kids return to schools. Because that is how this feels currently.

It feels like our government wants our children to go back to school simply to see what happens. Then schools will be blamed for the spread of the virus in communities, and it will be the schools and the general publics fault for not complying with whichever confusing set of guidelines happen to be in existence at the time.

Yes, we have to live with COVID to an extent. But when there are other alternatives to just having all kids back in all of the time regardless, I think these should be thought about and parents should realise that they cannot truly rely on anyone except themselves for their families right now.