to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@Bellesavage

I'm sorry. Are any distancing measures being put in place? I had no idea this was happening in FE.

@mbosnz

Our children's teachers are not our/the enemy.

They have valid concerns, for themselves and their students, as to how to safely manage and maintain returning to full time education.

If we listened to these, and advocated for those with the power to make things so, to do so, we'd get much further than we will by fighting the incompetent buffoons who are seeking to pit us against each other's corner.

This!

@mbosnz

Our children's teachers are not our/the enemy.

They have valid concerns, for themselves and their students, as to how to safely manage and maintain returning to full time education.

If we listened to these, and advocated for those with the power to make things so, to do so, we'd get much further than we will by fighting the incompetent buffoons who are seeking to pit us against each other's corner.

Exactly

TacosTuesday
Goady. You know as well as we do that with lockdown/schools closed, many 'Plan B' options just aren't available.

I think that the point of thread is to get some posters to realise the knock on effect of schools closing.

It isn't enough for schools to be open. end of
It schools should be open and be opened in such a way that they are able to remain open.
This is what teachers are saying and have been saying for months.

We need to do this right first time.

@spanieleyes

Bananabread

If a child is symptomatic they can either isolate for 10 days or take a test. If they do take a test, I really don't think it is unreasonable for the school to be told the result.

If the test came back positive I’m sure parents would keep their child at home. The problem is that they are often no symptoms and by that time the child has been in contact with everyone. Honestly do you not think it all sounds a bit OTT. Hospitals simply won’t be able to process a system where we can regularly tests the kids on a weekly basis to make sure they are COVID free. Why should teachers be entitled to know the result? So people can start more threads like this? It’s not helpful what OP is doing. I think it’s disgusting.

Thank God people could understand what I was saying, because I got entangled in grammatical knots with that one.

Can anyone please explain why teachers aren't allowed PPE? If this is causing such a fight on here and possibly elsewhere, wouldn't this be part of the solution? Surely parents who need their dcs to go back to school would prefer their dcs be taught by teachers in all the PPE, than not at all?

I think it has been done in other countries with no disastrous effects.

I don't want kids testing weekly. That would be insane.

If the test came back positive I’m sure parents would keep their child at home.

Most would, some wouldn't. You wouldn't believe the lack of social conscience of some parents.

@ Venicelover - your comments are not realistic. Why should anyone give up their careers for schools potentially closing for a couple of weeks. You’d soon be complaining when your GP, paramedic or hospital consultant has cancelled your emergency appointment as they have given up work to be at home during a school closure. All my friends and their partners both work full time in their chosen careers. Years at Uni, post grad studies and years to progress - no way are they giving that up.

Don't be obtuse - parents wont be at home thinking up plan B and C, they will be working while trying to figure out what that plan is.

Maybe we all need to take a step back and look at what is really going on. The government need schools back to ensure the economy starts filling their coffers again. I am not so naive as to not realise that this is as much a debate about the economy as anything else.

They are quite prepared to make the teaching profession their scape goat because whatever happens, they will be blamed. Schools go back, the virus spreads. Schools are not doing enough to keep the virus limited. Schools close, the economy tanks because many, many people rely on schools for the bulk of the days childcare and are now unable to work. It's the schools fault that people cannot work and earn their wage therefore reduce their spending accordingly.

@bananbread8
No one is asking for weekly testing! But if someone is symptomatic and wants a test rather than isolating for 10 days, then I would like some reassurance that the test has been done and is negative.

Our sector continues to be over looked by the government and yet we just quietly get on with our jobs, accepting of our low pay and status.

Exactly thousands and thousands of workers are at risk everyday, but they go out and do their job because they have no choice.

Do like we all had to do, protect yourself as much as you can whilst you continue to do your job. Wear a mask if you like, pitch up an isolation tent for all I care. But sit at home on full pay for the next 6, 12, 24 or however many more months it takes to get a vaccine? Little prince/princess teachers you are not.

If you don't want to do that, by all means resign. I'd like to think that's what my children's teachers would do before exposing them to a hostile adult for 6 hours a day.

Parker231 And what does it teach our daughters? Or even sons. “Yeah have a career but you will probably have to give it up when you have kids”.

@WhereTheCrawdadsSing

Can anyone please explain why teachers aren't allowed PPE? If this is causing such a fight on here and possibly elsewhere, wouldn't this be part of the solution? Surely parents who need their dcs to go back to school would prefer their dcs be taught by teachers in all the PPE, than not at all?

I think it has been done in other countries with no disastrous effects.

I can only give you my opinion but I think there are a couple of reasons.

Funding - there may be pressure for the Government to provide this PPE and they don't want to do that considering the disaster with hospitals and care homes.

Perception - it becomes more difficult for parents to feel that they are sending their most precious things into a safe environment if they have to send them with a supply of masks. This could lead to parents keeping children off and not being available for work - the Government doesn't want this. In fact, they have spent a chunk of money on a campaign that starts tomorrow and is designed to persuade people that schools are totally safe.

@WhereTheCrawdadsSing

Can anyone please explain why teachers aren't allowed PPE? If this is causing such a fight on here and possibly elsewhere, wouldn't this be part of the solution? Surely parents who need their dcs to go back to school would prefer their dcs be taught by teachers in all the PPE, than not at all?

I think it has been done in other countries with no disastrous effects.

It states it in the guidance. I think a screenshot of the guidance is on this thread somewhere. Basically you can only wear it if you are on medical duties/first aider I think.

@WhereTheCrawdadsSing

Can anyone please explain why teachers aren't allowed PPE? If this is causing such a fight on here and possibly elsewhere, wouldn't this be part of the solution? Surely parents who need their dcs to go back to school would prefer their dcs be taught by teachers in all the PPE, than not at all?

I think it has been done in other countries with no disastrous effects.

Schools aren’t allowed PPE because it costs money and the government are refusing to put extra money into schools to make them safer.

No point in saying to schools ‘wash your hands more often’ if there’s not even any extra money for soap, let alone extra sinks.

[quote Hercwasonaroll]@Bananabread8

Scenario for you.
Child comes to school with a temperature and is clearly unwell. Sent home and parents asked to get a test. Child returns after one day off. Parents lie they've had a negative test. Child dosed up on calpol and appears OK until about 11.30 and the temperature becomes obvious again. Parents then do take the child for a test and it's positive. An infected child has willingly been exposed to a classroom full of students and staff because parents lied. What if they didn't get the second test and sent the child back again?[/quote]
Unless you are a bit thick. I would not be lying about a Covid result as someone could even die. Results are documented on system. Maybe the school nurses need to get more involved instead of weighing the kids.... it’s not really a teachers job to be checking high temps. If the test was positive like your saying... the class has already been exposed and this is the main problem here. There’s no guarantees in a lot of sectors.

WhereTheCrawdadsSing

I would love to be able to tell you the reasons why some posters are so vehemently against it, but the vast majority of the reasons IMO are spurious.

So I suspect that the main reason that some don't want it is because teachers do.

I await the pile on.

@Nicknacky

Parker231 And what does it teach our daughters? Or even sons. “Yeah have a career but you will probably have to give it up when you have kids”.

Really, they should just be grateful for us putting them top of the agenda by putting them into poverty.

@WeakAsIAm
But sit at home on full pay for the next 6, 12, 24 or however many more months it takes to get a vaccine? Little prince/princess teachers you are not.

Sorry but, again, could you direct me to one post where a teacher has said that schools should not open until therebis a vaccine? I'd really appreciate it - thanks!

@Bananabread8 parents may lie due to financial/work pressures/lack of childcare/fear of unemployment. I can see this scenario being played out in many schools across the country. Teachers have seen ill kids sent into school time and again.

[quote spanieleyes]@bananbread8
No one is asking for weekly testing! But if someone is symptomatic and wants a test rather than isolating for 10 days, then I would like some reassurance that the test has been done and is negative. [/quote]
That should be done by a school nurse. You can’t demand someone’s privacy! What your saying doesn’t make sense because even if things are done like your saying..... what about the month after after that? Covid is all around it’s not as simple as that.

It does seem like some want miracles.

I'd be a bit careful about encouraging teachers to fuck the hell off. Our schools are finding it hard enough to find qualified staff, particularly for specialist subjects, as it is. Before the pandemic, schools were looking at closing early, shutting subjects down, because they couldn't get the teachers.

Can't think why. . . they're so well paid, schools are so well equipped, parents and students are so cordial to work with. . . oh wait, that's not the UK. That's fucking Utopia.

@Parker231

@ Venicelover - your comments are not realistic. Why should anyone give up their careers for schools potentially closing for a couple of weeks. You’d soon be complaining when your GP, paramedic or hospital consultant has cancelled your emergency appointment as they have given up work to be at home during a school closure. All my friends and their partners both work full time in their chosen careers. Years at Uni, post grad studies and years to progress - no way are they giving that up.

Exactly this

It isn't enough for schools to be open. end of
It schools should be open and be opened in such a way that they are able to remain open.
This is what teachers are saying and have been saying for months.

We need to do this right first time.

Absolutely this, 1000 times.

I don’t know a single teacher who didn’t work during “closure”, and I don’t know a single teacher who is refusing to go back to work. None.

I also don’t know any teachers powerful enough to stop schools opening because they just want to sit on their lazy arses and collect tax payers money.

Mumsnet is the only place where I hear people say “teachers want to keep schools closed!” And it is NEVER the teachers saying it.