to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

ZigZagPlant
For things that aren’t possible owing to the nature of their profession i.e

Social distancing - no it’s not possible in a classroom. But it’s not in a restaurant, hospital, supermarket, nursery, care home.

Restaurants around here has social distanced and have ppe, care homes has social distancing and now ppe , supermarkets were only allowing x amount of people in and now we have to wear masks in all enclosed spaces, hospitals have ppe.

Beyond that, what else is there that can be done to make them feel comfortable.

We are doing all sorts, because we have gotten creative.

What is safe? What conditions would they be happy to work in?

I accept that we can;t be totally safe but we can be as safe as possible.

Posted too soon
Supermarkets have limited numbers of customers all wearing face masks.
Nurserys had reduced numbers of children
Care homes closed to visitors.

We have a bottle of Hand gel.

Social distancing - no it’s not possible in a classroom. But it’s not in a restaurant, hospital, supermarket, nursery, care home.

Restaurants do social distancing apart from dropping down food.

As for what I'd be happy with:

1. More funding for cleaning, hand gel stations and cleaners.
2. Acknowledgement that my room isn't safe.
3. Option to wear masks.
4. Fund laptops for students.

@HandsOffMyRights Oak is being expanded over the summer and will go up to y11. It's not perfect and doesn't include every subject but it is a start.

@KarenFitzkaren

My Plan B is that myself and my DH will have to reduce our working hours to cover it.

You're a teacher. That's your plan B? Thats not a very good plan. Whose going to be covering you then because your plan is to not be at work 🤔. As a key worker I doubt I'd be in work much longer if I just reduced my hours.

That’s my plan B too. I’m also a secondary school teacher.

My mum is in a nursing home and we have no other family. DH is also a teacher. What else can we do except take unpaid leave? This won’t disadvantage our schools financially but will have a huge effect for our pupils.

I am really sick of these moaning threads by teachers. I was sympathetic a Month ago, now I’m just irritated. I went shopping into town a week ago, and popped into lots if different shops. Wearing my mask as instructed. 99% of shop workers not wearing a mask (.fine by me, I wouldn’t either). They must have seen hundreds of people a day in close proximity. Definitely not 2m distance. They all had a smile on their face, all glad to be working, all happy to chat, stand next to me to explain a product or whatever. What makes teachers so different that it’s worth all this angst. I’m so fed up with it now. Quit then, and go and get a job in retail. Or just reach out bloody kids and stop catastrophising. Eleven people died yesterday in the country from CV-19. ELEVEN. More people probably died in
RTAs.....

Isee a lot of teachers resigning on or before 31st October (last day possible for leaving at the end of the Autumn term.)
No they won't.
They will whine and threaten but won't actually do it.
There are no cushier jobs out there that they are qualified for

Beyond that, what else is there that can be done to make them feel comfortable.

We are doing all sorts, because we have gotten creative.

What is safe? What conditions would they be happy to work in?

I accept that we can;t be totally safe but we can be as safe as possible.

That sounds good - so what’s the issue?

As a nurse I worked without adequate ppe in the beginning however I don't think for a second tewchers should be expected to do this.
The NHS got "everything it needed" from the government and our schools should get the same.

As an aside I sympathise with anyone working in under ventilated places... I work in mental health so our windows only open a tiny crack and we have no air con... its been frigging torturous the past few weeks.

@Nicknacky

VeniceLover That is correct and I will make it work as I’m a responsible adult with a responsible job.

I didn’t foresee my mum dying prematurely of brain cancer, my bad. Or my mother in law 6 weeks ago.

But go you!!

Nicknacky No, nor did I forsee my mum dying of bowel cancer or my father and father in law dying either or forsee MIL needing care.

Shall I go on ( I could) or is this just a pissing contest you feel you have already won?

What we did do as part of a couple was to negotiate our hours/jobs to work around any eventuality.

feelingfragile

You're very naive if you think that this isn't the case in trusts.

Thanks, I haven't been called naive in years.

But there is only so many ways to creatively account without overstepping the mark, and it isn't possible for teachers to do this as we have no control over accounts.

But we should n't have to cook the books to make this work, there are many different things that can and could be done.

Remember that it was the government that vetoed rotas, use of church halls and libraries etc.

@ineedaholidaynow

Will you have SD *@SueEllenMishke*?

Room capacity has been designed that way but I doubt it will work in reality as it's a discussion based course.

The group will be a mix of ages and will be travelling from a wide geographical area.

However, I can only do my job if schools open.

If theres no cushier job than teachers taking time off shouldnt be an issue.

People must be queing round block to do teacher training

Personally I think schools (and 3+ nursery classes) should be about education and not childcare. However this is not the belief of our current Tory government. Once DC turn 3 the government expects a parent to be working or doing 'work related activity' like courses etc. So yes, school is seen as childcare.

As an aside I sympathise with anyone working in under ventilated places... I work in mental health so our windows only open a tiny crack and we have no air con... its been frigging torturous the past few weeks.

I sympathise too. Sounds shit and I’d prefer everyone was safe.

To me it seems everyone else has HAD to continue. But not teachers?!

There are no cushier jobs out there that they are qualified for

Ah, so that’s where you’re coming from. Helpful to know.

Or insist your pupils stay two metres away whilst you teach and wear a mask and visor whilst you move between classrooms?

Physically impossible for students to be 2m away. My classroom is too small.

I want parents to know what they are sensing their children into.

I want proof of a negative test before a symptomatic child returns.

I don't really want masks. To protect me, all the students need to wear one. Too much for them all day.

OP, this is a really nasty thread. We all know this, are losing sleep over this, and your contempt for parents is nothing short of cruel. We can't all keep nannies on retainer "just in case", and not all of us have family nearby on call.

School is childcare, but it is not only childcare. We have organised our society and working lives around schools being open 9-3:30, and the Plan B was to cover normal illness, school holidays and after school club. School is actually a pretty rubbish set up for education - learning with 30 random same-age peers isn't all that efficient for education. I homeschooled a year once while we travelled and managed the curriculum in a couple months. Of course we are all responsible for our own children, but the safety net in this country is not big enough to hold us all if we have to quit our jobs.

It is not reasonable for us to walk around with a Plan B in case schools shut. I would love if schools would take precautions and announce my child can only go in two days a week. If so, I would hire a part time nanny ASAP. It doesn't make sense for me to pay a nanny if schools are open. I do not have family nearby. So I wait, nervously, for schools to close and worry about quitting my job.

I would love a stable Plan B, I have no idea what that will be, and typically I am an excellent Plan B, C, and D person. OP, I think YOU are in the wrong job.You don't sound very kind, you sound mean and goady. I hope you are not my child's teacher.

[quote ZigZagPlant]@Hercwasonaroll

Rather than complain just wear your mask if that would make you happy? What do you think will happen? You’re not going to get sacked (imagine the press), or get thrown into prison are you?

Or insist your pupils stay two metres away whilst you teach and wear a mask and visor whilst you move between classrooms? M

Buy yourself some alcohol gel.

Is it really such an obstacle?[/quote]
Many schools have followed the guidance to the letter and stated that staff and students cannot wear any form of PPE. Yes, if I wore a mask, I would be disciplined.

My classroom is 8 metres by 6 metres with 34 people in it. I can never be more than a metre away from others. I also can't stay away from them as that wouldn't be me doing my job. Most of the time I'll be less than 50cm away giving feedback, doing individualised teaching, etc.

I bought gel. In fact, I supplied my class when we returned in June as our order had been redirected and then delayed. We used 40 bottles in one month and that was with 15 students in the bubble at any one time.

What we did do as part of a couple was to negotiate our hours/jobs to work around any eventuality.

So you're saying you actually planned for a pandemic and schools closing??

I don’t have a plan B

Single parent with no support

And no I can’t afford a nanny

Thankfully I’m a keyworker so ds will have a school place

It will be down to the government to provide plan B for all parents

We just all (who can) have to get on with it, wear masks (apart from those exempt) and lots of hand washing and doing the best to keep to distancing. Other countries are managing as they are embracing the changes rather than the constant moaning about what might happen or it’s not fair or I don’t like wearing a mask or it’s encroaching on my civil liberties nonsense

*I want parents to know what they are sensing their children into.

I want proof of a negative test before a symptomatic child returns.*

In respect of your first point, given the huge amount of discussion surrounding this I’m confident they do.

Re your second point, is this not already enshrined in the Covid guidance and applies to the whole of England?

VeniceLover Again, good for you.

Not possible here. Police officer and company owner. I’m not giving up or comprising the career I had long before I had children for a temporary problem.

When having children impossible to have plan a,b,c,d,e,f in place. Especially in the once in a lifetime pandemic.

I havent yet read through the thread, I've only at this point read your first post and maybe it's going to be unpopular,
BUT my daughter is going to be going back to school with some social distancing and the ability to wear masks etc if she is within a metre of anyone else.
If that doesnt happen and the rates continue to go up as they have, I will be homeschooling.

At this moment in time I'm thinking to hell with anything else, I refuse to send her into an unsafe situation

@Wishforanishwishdiash

OP, this is a really nasty thread. We all know this, are losing sleep over this, and your contempt for parents is nothing short of cruel. We can't all keep nannies on retainer "just in case", and not all of us have family nearby on call.

School is childcare, but it is not only childcare. We have organised our society and working lives around schools being open 9-3:30, and the Plan B was to cover normal illness, school holidays and after school club. School is actually a pretty rubbish set up for education - learning with 30 random same-age peers isn't all that efficient for education. I homeschooled a year once while we travelled and managed the curriculum in a couple months. Of course we are all responsible for our own children, but the safety net in this country is not big enough to hold us all if we have to quit our jobs.

It is not reasonable for us to walk around with a Plan B in case schools shut. I would love if schools would take precautions and announce my child can only go in two days a week. If so, I would hire a part time nanny ASAP. It doesn't make sense for me to pay a nanny if schools are open. I do not have family nearby. So I wait, nervously, for schools to close and worry about quitting my job.

I would love a stable Plan B, I have no idea what that will be, and typically I am an excellent Plan B, C, and D person. OP, I think YOU are in the wrong job.You don't sound very kind, you sound mean and goady. I hope you are not my child's teacher.

This with bells on.

I hope you're regretting posting this OP. All you've done is create more upset, anger and divide which isn't helping anyone in any situation.

Has anyone else noticed that the Private early years childcare sector has gone back to work without a murmur. Working with no PPE and in close contact with children every single day. Thousands of childminders open up their homes every day and did so throughout lockdown, often taking on unknown key worker children, who for whatever reason, couldn’t get a school place or whose original childcare setting closed.

Our sector continues to be over looked by the government and yet we just quietly get on with our jobs, accepting of our low pay and status.

I’m afraid I’m getting a bit tired of hearing teachers moaning about their conditions. As a childminder, I’ve been completely Full since June 1st, taking on Key worker school aged children whose parents can not get school places and have struggled to pay me, because it’s an unexpected expense (yet without them doing their jobs, the whole system would collapse).

So, yes. In answer to your question, my plan B will have to be, that I just get on with it. As I did before the summer, look after other people’s children (with no PPE, as per government guidelines and in my own home) while at the same time, do my best to home educate my own dc. And just pray to anyone that will listen that the reason my own dc are home isn’t because they have to isolate as we are screwed then.