to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@Hercwasonaroll

Where have you been?

They did NOT have adequate PPE for a significant period.

ZigZagPlant.

This just seems to be a line teachers trot out to justify why they need protection over and above other frontline workers.

What are teachers asking for that other workers haven't got?

@FrippEnos

feelingfragile

As I said, rethink traditional practice. Recruit volunteers, teachers to move between rooms, use of digital technology, use student teachers.

You know, think creatively, like other professions have had to do over the last 6 months.

Two things
1/Where will the money come from for this
2/Many professions just furloughed their staff. so lets not pretend that all companies/professions were creative in their responses to this.

Statutory services had no choice but to be flexible and creative.

Things that trusts 'couldn't' do for years because of policy, had to happen so they did.

People are working in ways that they never imagined would work, because they can't leave patients without.

@SueEllenMishke

Are you really? Most lecturers I have spoken to see going online only and 1-2 small group tutorials a week.

How are university making that covid secure?

Nurseries completely shut for a while. Many aren't anywhere near full capacity back yet. Health care and carers have PPE.

ZigZagPlant

Where have you been?

They did NOT have adequate PPE for a significant period.

Neither did teachers, so as the others have this now, why not teachers?

My Plan B (as a secondary teacher and a parent) is that I will take unpaid leave if my children are ill/closures or paid sickness leave if I am required to isolate.

Either way does not help my school in its continuation of education especially if I am take leave for my children as in turn that requires cover for me in my school.

Teachers are parents too.

I'm glad as a frontline worker I wasnt expected to 'get the fuck' to work without PPE at the start of the pandemic.

Are you now? Have we learned anything since then?

They did NOT have adequate PPE for a significant period.

They do now.

So why not teachers?

Or because you had it bad, so should we?

@Riv
Now the government has successfully deflected the blame for this fiasco by setting parents and teachers against each other I wonder what their next move will be?

I think we all saw it coming but I for one didn't think many parents would be stupid enough to fall for it. But here we are.

For things that aren’t possible owing to the nature of their profession i.e

Social distancing - no it’s not possible in a classroom. But it’s not in a restaurant, hospital, supermarket, nursery, care home.

Beyond that, what else is there that can be done to make them feel comfortable.

What is safe? What conditions would they be happy to work in?

@Hercwasonaroll

you'd think the DfE could come up with a decent online learning programme for secondary school kids by September.

Oak academy then.

Oak Academy only goes up to Y10 I believe. Mine (who have just finished year 9) both found the year 9 way too easy, so could not study with Oak.

feelingfragile

All of your creative ideas require funding to do it.
The government has said no money to put in education.

If your trusts are being creative with their budgets, I can tell you that this is heavily frowned upon in education.

As for policies changing, schools have done that, but there is only so much that you can do without the cash.

VeniceLover That is correct and I will make it work as I’m a responsible adult with a responsible job.

I didn’t foresee my mum dying prematurely of brain cancer, my bad. Or my mother in law 6 weeks ago.

But go you!!

[quote ZigZagPlant]@Hercwasonaroll

Where have you been?

They did NOT have adequate PPE for a significant period.[/quote]
You're quite right - they didn't.

But... we're not back then at that point in time, are we? Or are you proposing that, because other frontline workers had a period of time with no protective measures, schools shouldn't have any until they've paid there dues?

Incidently, I was in school without protections for the key worker children and with only smaller bubbles once I started back full time in June - have I served my time and so qualify for... I don't know... a steady supply of soap and sanitiser?

[quote Iamnotthe1]@feelingfragile
As I said, rethink traditional practice. Recruit volunteers, teachers to move between rooms, use of digital technology, use student teachers.

You know, think creatively, like other professions have had to do over the last 6 months

These are excellent ideas that we could definitely follow up if the Government changed the legal obligations binding schools and made them looser and more akin to childcare, like they did during lockdown.[/quote]
That's about education leadership making that happen. Rather than complaining about what can't or shouldn't be done, education leaders need to get together and talk about what can be done.

That's what's happening elsewhere, through necessity.

[quote Hercwasonaroll]@SueEllenMishke

Are you really? Most lecturers I have spoken to see going online only and 1-2 small group tutorials a week.

How are university making that covid secure?

Nurseries completely shut for a while. Many aren't anywhere near full capacity back yet. Health care and carers have PPE.[/quote]
I will be teaching groups of at least 20 face to face as well as providing remote learning.

Restaurants have tables spaced out and staff wear face masks.
Hospital staff have PPE

l worked part time and had 3 people lined up to help out with childcare for when schools closed but Boris put us into lockdown and said no crossing households so tell me what else l could do? I ended up quitting my job. Times have changed- many more mums work now than back when l was a child because they have bills to pay etc so when the kids start school, mums and some dads depending on the family setup get jobs that will around school hours. I don't for one minute see my dd's teacher as a babysitting service but once she started school, l had to get a job that worked around it so all my wages didn't go on childcare.

@Hercwasonaroll

Rather than complain just wear your mask if that would make you happy? What do you think will happen? You’re not going to get sacked (imagine the press), or get thrown into prison are you?

Or insist your pupils stay two metres away whilst you teach and wear a mask and visor whilst you move between classrooms? M

Buy yourself some alcohol gel.

Is it really such an obstacle?

Will you have SD @SueEllenMishke?

My Plan B is that myself and my DH will have to reduce our working hours to cover it.

You're a teacher. That's your plan B? Thats not a very good plan. Whose going to be covering you then because your plan is to not be at work 🤔. As a key worker I doubt I'd be in work much longer if I just reduced my hours.

teachers trot out to justify why they need protection over and above other frontline workers

What do you think teachers are asking for that other frontline workers haven’t got?

Saying that some workers didn’t have any mitigation of risk in their workplace back in March is a ridiculous argument as a) many of them died and b) we know a lot more about the virus now and their workplaces are much safer as a result.

I was appalled as the next person that NHS staff etc were not being protected adequately back in the beginning. I want school staff to be protected as well.

If school staff go off sick, it will be very hard to cover them. There are not oodles of spare healthy supply teachers around, there is no money for supply teachers and having them move from school to school covering symptomatic teachers is a dreadful idea. The OP is right to raise this as a concern.

I can not wait to be back in the classrooom... however the week before lockdown we had a girl in with a high fever, coughing, asleep on her desk. She had to stay in school as her mum refused to have her home.

Id love to know how all the experts on this thread think teachers should deal with that situation? Or how you feel about your child being sat in that classroom?

@FrippEnos

feelingfragile

All of your creative ideas require funding to do it.
The government has said no money to put in education.

If your trusts are being creative with their budgets, I can tell you that this is heavily frowned upon in education.

As for policies changing, schools have done that, but there is only so much that you can do without the cash.

You're very naive if you think that this isn't the case in trusts.

@feelingfragile
That's about education leadership making that happen. Rather than complaining about what can't or shouldn't be done, education leaders need to get together and talk about what can be done.

No, it's about the Government changing the laws within which education providers need to operate. Educational leaders have come up with some fantastic ideas. Unfortunately, the Government has said no.