to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

you'd think the DfE could come up with a decent online learning programme for secondary school kids by September.

Oak academy then.

I would, but it's the summer holiday😳

I disagree op that other frontline workers have more protection than teachers? Have you ever tried to arrest anybody? I can assure you there's no way to do that while maintaining any sort of distance! And they'll often spit in your face for good measure.

I agree that teachers should be able to wear masks if they want to, and there an argument for secondary lids wearing masks too.

But please get over the idea that teachers are more hard done by than the rest of our essential services.

@Friendsoftheearth

The job is teaching, not providing mental health services

You are damn right so get the f*ck back to school and do your bloody job like the rest of us!

I've been doing my job the entire time. In fact, my hours increased during lock down. I've been back in the classroom since the start of June and will be teaching children again as soon as we open in September.

I've posted this from NASUWT before. They're not remotely saying that schools shouldn't open, and neither are teachers. They should, however, open in a sustainable way, but since they're not, working parents are going to need a Plan B because the full reopening is unlikely to last.

Friendsoftheearth are you aware teachers are not currently being paid but working their arses off changing the content to be taught to next years year 11s in line with exam changes?

That were doing this while being in school sorting A Level and GCSE results? During our "time off" were not paid for.

Just thought Id explain the situation so you can apologise for your ignorance

Online resources aren't the optimal solution for anything. They're OK for delivering maths lessons but terrible for finding out what students can/can't do. None of them can type properly into maths text, doing the work on paper and uploading a pic has a time lag, webcams generally aren't clear enough to see their work live.

Teens (and all of us) need face to face interaction.

NRTFT sorry. Do you have secondary school children OP at a crucial point in their studies?

I voted YABU as I have two going into Y10. I also work in education, but my role can be flexible.

This is about education and mental health, not babysitting or fitting around work.

But please get over the idea that teachers are more hard done by than the rest of our essential services

But they are, because they're expected to just 'get the fuck back' to under-ventilated rooms without PPE, for prolonged periods.

I think it’s very gracious of you to relinquish 50% of your salary in keeping with doing 50% of your job and your acknowledgment there will be tough Financial Times ahead. Bravo to you.

Every other business is open to a degree..I read today casion's can open..

At no point through my DS' school life 9 now year 9 ) have I been involved in how to make it safe.

I am a childminder. I have had parents of keyworker children in my home all the way through. I had to find ways to do this as safely as possible...

How you do this is for you and the governemnt to figure out.. It cannot be the only place in thr coutry that there is no way to make it safe???

As I work from home it is not a childcare issue for me but it is a MH and edcuation issue for my DS.

i may of missed it but what is covid behaviour?

@AnneElliott

I completely take your point about Police and PPE. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I hadn't even considered their close contact work.

I don't think teachers are particularly hard done to. All public services are under funded sadly.

i disagree op that other frontline workers have more protection than teachers? Have you ever tried to arrest anybody? I can assure you there's no way to do that while maintaining any sort of distance! And they'll often spit in your face for good measure.

Agree. OP clearly didn’t watch the news in the beginning of the pandemic where the lack of PPE for carers, healthcare workers etc was discussed. Many frontline workers - supermarket staff didn’t start wearing PPE (or still don’t) until very recently when it became mandatory.

This just seems to be a line teachers trot out to justify why they need protection over and above other frontline workers.

@Friendsoftheearth

The job is teaching, not providing mental health services

You are damn right so get the f*ck back to school and do your bloody job like the rest of us!

@AnneElliott
Have you ever tried to arrest anybody? I can assure you there's no way to do that while maintaining any sort of distance! And they'll often spit in your face for good measure.

I can imagine that that must be hard to deal with. You have my thanks for the job that you do and I hope you are able to find ways to keep yourself as safe as possible and that you're employers are supporting you in doing this.

There aren't many other workers spending 5 hours a day with up to 150 people in poorly ventilated spaces.
Spending over 15 minutes in a small room with someone means your chance of catching it increases.

@SaltyAndFresh

But please get over the idea that teachers are more hard done by than the rest of our essential services

But they are, because they're expected to just 'get the fuck back' to under-ventilated rooms without PPE, for prolonged periods.

As a university academic I'm expected to do the same thing 🤷🏼‍♀️

This just seems to be a line teachers trot out to justify why they need protection over and above other frontline workers.

Most other front line workers have PPE.

All other workplaces have to be covid secure and social distancing applied.

I just want the same protection, nothing over and above.

Starlightstarbright1

How you do this is for you and the governemnt to figure out..

Funnily enough the unions (plural) have put suggestions forward and the government has said no.

i may of missed it but what is covid behaviour?

This would be those children that behave is such away as to put others at risk.

The stuff that they would have got away with before this, walking out of rooms, getting in other pupils faces, spitting etc.

Now the government has successfully deflected the blame for this fiasco by setting parents and teachers against each other I wonder what their next move will be?
I see a lot of teachers resigning on or before 31st October (last day possible for leaving at the end of the Autumn term.) Teachers have been vilified by the media for years, so few parents have any respect for their work and the job is hard enough as it is without the fear of this pandemic.
Many schools are already running on minimum staffing and having to use unqualified people to take classes. Most qualified teachers leave within the first 5 years of qualifying and will not take another teaching job, schools don't have enough funding, older and more experienced (more expensive) teachers being "managed" out plus some being made redundant to enable heads to manage budgets. Add in these extra resignations and early retirements...
I will be interested to see who is going to teach our children then.
Maybe it will be as good as the health care provided by my GP surgery during the pandemic (they were shut for quite a while and it's still urgent cases only and consultations strictly on line.) Or the hospital who stopped all non urgent operations and out patient clinics. But then, we all understand why that happened, and no one says the NHS wasn't working.
I am not criticising the NHS by the way, I really, really, really appreciate the work they do and the way they have coped. They did what was needed when it was needed and they were there. Now they've also been shafted by the government over pay and conditions.

But I also think we need to cut the teachers and schools some slack. They did what they were ordered to do and what they had to do in the crisis too. Some better than others, but they did their best. And they really do seem to want to go back to teaching face to face. They are just scared of the very real possibility of getting the virus, as were the shop workers, NHS, careers and all the other essential workers. Scared because, just like these other workers at the start, most will not have masks, shields, any PPE, viable social distancing a chance to wash their hands every hour and will be expected to do the extra cleaning and sanitising during their reduced, unpaid breaks. Just like everyone else.

As a university academic I'm expected to do the same thing

Yup and nursery workers, Childminder’s, healthcare staff, carers, police... all of which have been working throughout. Many of which would simply not be paid or retained their jobs had they refused...

But sorry, yes, teachers have had the really tough end of this pandemic

I think you are very privileged.
Some people have nothing and no one.
If they don’t work then they can’t buy food to feed their kids.
Do you realise how many people are relying on food banks at the minute? Maybe look into your local statistics.

@ZigZagPlant

This just seems to be a line teachers trot out to justify why they need protection over and above other frontline workers.

No one has said that, though. Making things up doesn't add much to the debate.

But they are, because they're expected to just 'get the fuck back' to under-ventilated without PPE, for prolonged periods.

really, well now you say that everything changes.

I'm glad as a frontline worker I wasnt expected to 'get the fuck' to work without PPE at the start of the pandemic.

@Nicknacky

VeniceLover Good for you. I don’t just work for the money, I work for me.

Over the years my childcare options have diminished. Pandemic was never on my radar.

Nicknacky- Then you have made your choice and if schools do have to close again you will have to make another.

Working is often a lot easier than coping with young children, but if you choose to have them the buck does stop with you under any and all circumstances.