to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

VeniceLover Good for you. I don’t just work for the money, I work for me.

Over the years my childcare options have diminished. Pandemic was never on my radar.

Dds teachers have said in their zoom classes and private meetings I’ve had they can’t wait to get back in the class room

makes you wonder if it is all fake?

Someone is paying for the NEC to do this, ask them next time and find out if they have supported the NEC and are they a member. You will have your answer

I'm not really affected by this, as I don't WOH at the moment anyway, but I honestly can't see the Tory government locking down schools at a national level again. I don't think they would have done it the first time around, except that there was pressure from the public to do so. I don't think that will happen again, because parents are now starting to become seriously concerned about children missing out on their education and they also need to get back to work. There is pressure from some industries to stop the furlough scheme asap too.

I've read all the OP's posts. I think she is saying she would have to leave her job to care for her own dcs if their school closes. If enough teachers do the same, I suppose the schools could close without the government having much say in it. I wonder what they would do in those circumstances... Possibly go back to the keyworker thing or similar to that; ie no teaching, just childcare, but for more children, and not just keyworker dcs.

I want to become a teacher myself one day, and I obviously have a lot of respect for the profession. I cannot understand why they aren't allowed to use similar ppe to doctors and nurses if they so wish. What real damage could that do? I'm sure I've seen pictures of teachers and pupils in other countries doing so.

That said, my only school age DC's teacher was not overly worried about catching it. We are in an area where the rate is something like 2 in 100,000 currently. It has never had a lot of cases and also she is young and healthy. If dc's new teacher wanted the full ppe kit I definitely wouldn't object. Why would I?

Not once in all of this time have I seen a post from a teacher that says I am really worried about the children in my school, and I want to get back to the classroom as soon as possible.

There have been loads. Pretending there haven't is silly.

It is an outrage, one that the teachers will never be forgiven for. The ones that tore up their membership might well be given respect, but the rest??

And the Oscar for over acting goes to ....

Such hysteria.

I agree OP. Keep the schools closed, continue to homeschool, you and your colleagues will all be out of a job. But hey, atleast you’ll be available for childcare!

The NEU are 100% behind all of this - such a shame for the decent teachers tarnished with this shit show.

The really depressing thing is that it will be women who end up losing/quitting their jobs.
Not opening schools will be absolutely catastrophic for women and their participation in the labour market.

Me and my husband share childcare but if one of us had to quit it would have to be me as no other way works financially,

My plan b will be to ignore any local lockdown rules and share home ed with a set of other parents to form a mini school on rotation. If we don't do this we will all (in this group) lose our careers.

Who is running the online provision while the secondary teachers are in primary? I don't think anyone really wants Secondary to go online only. Short term online periods during a shut down are OK. Long term I think they need peer interaction and not just through a screen.

You won't need so many teachers if everything is online. The government could coordinate and produce a central online programme for all children to follow so teachers don't even have to produce resources, just mark student work as normal. It won't, of course, but it could. If Oxford University can almost produce a Covid vaccine by now, you'd think the DfE could come up with a decent online learning programme for secondary school kids by September.

I agree on the social aspect, but the priority should be getting primary school children back so parents can go back to work and we can avoid an increase in child poverty and family breakdown. If we can't have everything, we need to pick what's most important.

I get it OP. I am with you. I have little confidence in what the government are saying/ doing. It's going to be shit.

@askmehowiknow
Do you really not get it 🤦‍♀️. If teachers are working from home their bubble or whatever is at home. Right? So 300 ? (mums) would need to be at home. It just can't continue to happen

You do realise that this is just primary bubbles?

Secondary school teachers exist outside of the bubble but inside of that magic area where viruses are to scared to go.

WHO ARE THE NEC????

're staff being able to wear masks etc. This decision lies with the Head.

Plan B....

My son is in nursery which shut. If it shut again and we couldn't rely on grandparents I'd be Fucked.

Alternative is losing my job, my house and our life we've spent years building!

I can also say if I'm told I can't use my mother in law for childcare I would spend all my money on childcare so I have the same issue then.

We need to learn to live with COVID unfortunately.

@Friendsoftheearth

Too many to list Iam read the thread yourself, there are many many other threads to choose from.

Not once in all of this time have I seen a post from a teacher that says I am really worried about the children in my school, and I want to get back to the classroom as soon as possible.

We all know the ones at risk, and yet we overlook the pain and the suffering even knowing we are very low risk of covid, and the children are at almost no risk whatsoever - we ignore the mental health and abuse car crash that is evolving in slow motion up and down the country whilst the NEC make 99 ridiculous demands for extra tissues etc. Seriously and you expect us to think you care - that you even give a damn?!

It is an outrage, one that the teachers will never be forgiven for. The ones that tore up their membership might well be given respect, but the rest??

Sorry to ask again but that's far too vague for me to use. Could you please point me to one teacher who has said that schools shouldn't go back at all in September?

I can't speak to your experience but my parents at my school feel that we've supported their children extremely well academically, emotionally and mentally. The need of our children was also one of the reasons why we opened to all year groups on a part time model from June, despite the Government saying not to.

Friendsoftheearth whats a teachers actual job?
Its to fucking teach.

The job is teaching, not providing mental health services. 99% of teachers I know care deeply about the kids and will do whatever they can to help, often at the expense of their own families. But that is not their job.

If your child has MH problems you need to be proactive in parenting them and helping them get the appropriate care, not ranting on social media a stranger didnt do it for you.

@Nandocushion, I actually can’t believe what I’m reading about no masks. Surely this part of the debate is months old and we are all wearing them when indoors?

Anyway, also in the US, and our elementary will be split into two cohorts, the first going 9-12 and the second 1-4. Each day, in addition, there will be a one-hour Zoom class when the kids are at home. This will be for the first four weeks, and then the school will assess and decide how to proceed based on numbers. Not ideal for families with two working parents, but I can understand why our district—even though we are in a state with an R-rate below 1—is taking a cautious approach, based on what happened in areas where everyone went back to school, masks were optional etc.

@allFrippEnos

I saw REM at the NEC. They were fab.

@Reluctantcavedweller

So far I've got one big class in the hall for 60 but that still needs 2 members of staff.

One (unpopular) option I can see is to have primary school children go back full-time. Then set up a really good system of online learning for secondary school children who don't require so much supervision. Then redeploy some secondary school staff to primary schools to help supervise the children there.

Which is fine except for things like:

1. Adolescence is a crucial period for psychological/ cognitive development and teens need to be around their peers. I use need deliberately, because this goes way beyond just wanting to see your mates - we are setting a generation up for serious psychological damage as adults if this continues. (My DS has really, really been struggling with this, and I am seriously worried about his mental health).

2. It leaves out the children with additional educational needs. (Again, using my DS as an example - he's a bright kid with dyslexia, and if there's one thing I've learned from this whole fiasco, it's that teaching a kid with dyslexia is a specialist job.)

3. Online resources just don't work for a lot of subjects - languages, for instance, or lab-based science classes, or design and technology. (Again, in our case we've done not too badly - my French is fairly fluent, my day job is research science so we've been able to put together some kitchen experiments... we fall down a bit with DT, but at least I've got a range of woodworking tools - though of course this means I struggle to get my job done because it's very time-intensive). Also, this is down to the expertise and stuff individual parents have at their disposal, so will be wildly patchy. The kids whose parents maybe struggled in school or who don't have much in the way of facilities at home will not do as well as the kids whose parents have resources they can draw on. School should help the kids at the bottom of the social heap get a leg up - they are going to be failed massively if home schooling continues, no matter how much effort teachers put into online resources (and DS's school have obviously put huge amounts of effort into this).

However you cut the limited cloth available, this will damage children.

@Bellesavage

My plan b will be to ignore any local lockdown rules and share home ed with a set of other parents to form a mini school on rotation. If we don't do this we will all (in this group) lose our careers.

Me and my friend have just had this exact conversation. We'll do the same thing.

@JKRowlingIsMyQueen

We can't know it's safe? Actually we can know. Sweden never closed schools and they are fine, no spreads in schools, kids not dying like flies, lower death count than the UK actually.

Schools in Sweden have much smaller classes. It would be like only half of an English class being in at any one time so much easier to socially distance. Also, they closed schools for the over 16s.

@Friendsoftheearth

iam

It is the NEC that have caused all of this by making it impossible to open schools, backed by the teachers paying them not the government!!!!!!!!!!

How dare you try and blame others, this is all on you.

Do you mean the NEU? In which case, they haven't asked for schools to be closed or not to open in September. They've asked for certain points to be considered - that's all.

allFriendsoftheearth
The NEU are 100% behind all of this

Oh, you are one of them.

@Friendsoftheearth can you point to any teachers on here who have said they don’t want schools to open and they don’t want to teach at all