to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

Yeah you see the thing is in health care, covering each other's work doesn't mean leaving your own patients to deliver care to your colleagues. It means take on both, no not ideal but this is the historical reality for health professionals. You cover extra work stay longer, no break - this is our reality. Because you see patients not receiving care causes all sorts of problems.

OK. So say the teacher in the class next door is ill, so her 32 pupils need a teacher. I am in my separate class, with 33. It is 8.30 am, every teacher is with their own class. Nobody is on a break, and every child comes to school for the same times, so there isn't an opportunity to e.g. teach that class in a 'second shift' from 3.30-9.

How is that class covered?

Not to mention the fact that the other class is a separate bubble, so in fact the classes cannot merge for infection control purposes.....

[quote Iamnotthe1]@askmehowiknow

Ah, so your argument is based on the huge assumption that all current advice around isolation and the main role of track and trace will be discarded in September. Do you have any evidence for this?[/quote]
Well I'd bet my house on it! I wonder what odds I'd get.

I wonder if it's more likely that the whole of society continues to self isolate for 14 days or if we'll just get tested and move on....

Record 20% down turn in economy. Record levels of unemployment and national debt...

2 weeks off work vs a simple already in existence test....

Who could say which way we'll go!?

@SaltyAndFresh

I'm not concerned about whether or not you think I'm being goady. I suppose you will be goaded by it if you're a parent who wants schools to open fully so that you can get back to work full time (I want schools to open as fully and safely as possible).

Because my DH and I have been in work throughout, we're out of options. We have no more annual leave and can't ask his parents to put themselves at risk. We're using a CM while we can but I accept that in the event of further school closures whether partial or full, one of us is going to have to change our hours or find another job, as are other parents in our situation. This will of course be obvious to some but sadly not to all on MN

Why have you started a thread saying parents need a plan B when you've basically told us you don't have one either. Reduce hours or hand notice in is not an overnight solution to a school closing as you well know and you've said you have no other solutions.

A bit hypocritical to start such an awful thread when you are basically the same as everyone else. Trying to make the best of a bad situation. I said it before, there are no winners in this, just lots of people trying to do their best. Awful thread OP.

"Are those services usually registered? Becasue as part of the local north west lockdown people are only permitted to enter your home if they are registered under part 3 of the childcare act."
Really? Anyone at all under any circumstances?

@SaltyAndFresh

It's a 30% pay drop for me, and there were 75 applications for one job.

Yes that's the situation we'll be in too. I know there are lots of social care vacancies locally but nothing above NMW.

Yes and those care workers on minimum wage are working throughout the pandemic. 12 hours a day so twice as long as you will be in contact with pupils. Providing close contact intimate care including cleaning up bodily fluids, not something you will be doing. Of course the patients don’t wear masks either.

You can not believe that the PPE of mask, apron and pair of gloves gave them immunity and yet they carried on. You need some perspective @SaltyAndFresh. Teachers are front line workers who have been providing a reduced and inadequate service the last 5 months. And yet here you are telling parents to suck it up, how conceited are you?

Your post is patronising, rude and shows no regard for safeguarding. No school would leave one adult in charge of 60+ children for more than a couple of minutes.

Used to happen quite a lot at my junior school when I was little. Things may have changed since, I admit.

Look, send them home and many from 8+ will just be home alone all day watching TV while their parents are out at work (also a safeguarding risk). It's a question of least worst options...better for them to be supervised at school even if there aren't enough staff to provide proper education and they just spend half the day playing outside in the playground.

Which parents do you mean? The mothers, because it will be the women that take the hit financially in terms of future earnings and pension, and psychologically as we dont only work for wages. Schools do need to have a plan b and c in place amd cant push it all back to parents (mothers)

@askmehowiknow

It depends. If we are listening to the scientific community and actually want to reduce levels of Covid-19 in our country then we'll continue to isolate as we have been doing.

If we choose to ignore scientific advice/studies/data and don't care about increasing infection levels in the country then you're probably correct.

With this current Government and their casual disregard for science, you might get good odds on what you predict.

Plan B for schools is remote learning

@Mintychoc1

I don’t think parents should need to have a plan B. I think schools should have a plan B if staff go off sick. Supply teachers, cross-covering each other etc.

I’m a GP.
OP if some of our doctors, nurses and reception staff go off sick, are you happy for us to close for a few days? Or reduce our hours? You can use “blended” medicine - a mixture of talking to an actual doctor, and googling your symptoms on the days the surgery is closed. OK with you? Or would you prefer us to cover each other, work extra hours and employ locums, so we can continue to provide the same service as usual.

I'd be bloody grateful if our GP had provided anything at all. No routine injections. No med reviews. Phone consultations only. No one allowed inside the surgery. If you were very ill told to phone an ambulance.

Not all GPs were doing their jobs either.

The op does have a plan b though, she has a childminder!

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@hammeringinmyhead are they being paid?

There are supply teachers out there but there isn’t the money to pay them as the Government is refusing to pay schools any additional money to cover COVID[/quote]
Of course they're being paid. Hourly. And not a small amount.

What I am saying is they found the money to pay for half of everyone's Nandos to keep hospitality going. If they become desperate enough to keep everyone at work and not on UC they may have to consider creating and paying for a backup workforce. They're very keen on 2 parents working, as evidenced by tax free childcare requiring both parents to work at least 16 hours on minimum wage.

YABU. I do not live in an affluent area but most parents around here both have to work to make ends meet for a modest living. Pre coronavirus the whole economy (and house prices/costs) have been now built on households having two incomes. It is wishful thinking that a family can simply implement a plan b where one of them doesn't work to care for children longer term. I personally don't live near to family for childcare, though many can't access this at the moment anyway.

My employer has been generous with accommodating kids at home so far (my husbands' much less so), but with redundancies on the horizon, I'm not best placed to continue to request significant time off to work/home school/care all at once. I will have to muddle through and pray for the best.

It's swings and roundabouts in this pandemic, I'm lying awake at night scared about losing my job, you probably concerned about lack of PPE and processes in your school.

Maybe your plan b should be to give up your job if you feel that uncomfortable. I recognise that may be very unreasonable for you to consider this, but I see it no more unreasonable than you expecting working parents to be equipped to handle this situation either.

[quote Iamnotthe1]@askmehowiknow

It depends. If we are listening to the scientific community and actually want to reduce levels of Covid-19 in our country then we'll continue to isolate as we have been doing.

If we choose to ignore scientific advice/studies/data and don't care about increasing infection levels in the country then you're probably correct.

With this current Government and their casual disregard for science, you might get good odds on what you predict.[/quote]
I think we both know I'm right

Used to happen quite a lot at my junior school when I was little. Things may have changed since, I admit.

Things have changed A LOT!!

The safeguarding risk is one adult and that many children. Not the children watching a film. Can you imagine the behaviour after an hour or so. Ime it's terrible (hence why I never show films!)

Teachers are front line workers who have been providing a reduced and inadequate service the last 5 months.

Rude and not true. Some schools weren't good enough. Teachers aren't one homogenous group.

@hammeringinmyhead

I'd like to think they would find the money for it but the Government has already failed to fund:

• the enhanced cleaning they promised,
• the laptops and internet access for disadvantaged students, and
• the full catch-up programme that they promised.

I'm not hopeful.

Online teaching was dire for my dd. If schools do shut again and moves to remote learning this area really needs to be improved.

@cantkeepawayforever. This is where the insidious long-term underfunding of schools comes back to haunt us - parents are imagining the schools of their own day, when there were playground supervisors and additional TAs, rather than current schools, where to keep a qualified teacher in front of every class, and a 1:1 supporter for all children legally entitled to one, ALL other staff have been dispensed with.

Very informative post! So, actually, this is where some extra government funding could make a difference.

We could have full-time school but part-time teaching.

BUT: the government would have to put its hand in its pocket and pay for TAs/playground supervisors...

OR: parents in each 'bubble' could form a rota and help supervise to keep the kids in school.

First suggestion is not likely and the second is not great...But ultimately some solutions need to be found. Instead of talking about what can't be done, how about we start talking about what can be done? Too much 'isn't this awful?' and hand-wringing.

@askmehowiknow

I definitely don't know that. Furthermore, if you are right then we'll have much bigger issues to deal with given the height the second wave would be with no isolation controls. After all, according to predictive models, the estimate is that only around 6% of the population has had the virus thus far.

Stick them in the hall with a TA to supervise and a video on.

It's a bit of a far cry from "our children need an education at all costs" isn't it?

[quote Iamnotthe1]@hammeringinmyhead

I'd like to think they would find the money for it but the Government has already failed to fund:

• the enhanced cleaning they promised,
• the laptops and internet access for disadvantaged students, and
• the full catch-up programme that they promised.

I'm not hopeful.[/quote]
Cynically, none of these things have any influence on how much tax the kids' parents pay.

The parent supervision bubble would never happen due to DBS checks, safeguarding etc. Any HT doing that would (rightfully) be hung out to dry if it went wrong. However parents are within their rights to create informal bubbles to exchange childcare if a school closed. I would take 4 extra kids for one day so we could all work 4 days a week and look after the kids on the other one.

As it stands, there isn't much that can be done without finding. I think the PP has tried to make this point but gone backwards, head over heels and in a crazy way about it. Schools need more funding.

Stick them in the hall with a TA to supervise and a video on. It's a bit of a far cry from "our children need an education at all costs" isn't it?

I'm afraid I'm in the "school as childcare" camp. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.