to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@Medra

I’m not sure if it’s that parents should have a plan B, more like the government is expecting that we will. I cannot see how secondaries with any cases will stay open for long due to the lack of distancing and the size of bubbles. I think schools would be likely to stay open more easily and for longer with a week on, week off system with half classes. At least there’d be more than about 5cm between pupils then.

You're right about the assumption that schools and parents will just have to make this work. The problem is, neither can if the current plan goes tits up. I think a version of your suggested scenario is what will take it's place.

If you can't close you find solutions to make it work. Like every other essential service does

Yes, and this will almost inevitably involve closing to some pupils, some of the time, which parents are going to have to accept and prepare for. Unless your magic solution involves bigger buildings and more staff.

Jesus Is there any need? YABU.

I would like to think that over the last 6 months, senior leadership teams have come up with some kind of plan b in case they have to close again in September. Just because your headship have not shared it with you as yet does not mean that this hasn't happened.

[quote Reluctantcavedweller]@therhubarbbrothers. Your children are clearly doing fine (as are you!) . You must be very proud of them. They are definitely defying the stereotypes.

But they all seem old enough to sort themselves out now, if you'll excuse my saying so...

If you're looking after tinies/primary school age and trying to work full time simultaneously, surely two people to share the load is (usually) easier than one person having to do it all on their own?[/quote]
I was a single parent from when my eldest was 2. I was working full time and did my degree at the same time. Next question

@SaltyAndFresh

If you can't close you find solutions to make it work. Like every other essential service does

Yes, and this will almost inevitably involve closing to some pupils, some of the time, which parents are going to have to accept and prepare for. Unless your magic solution involves bigger buildings and more staff.

With the rapid turn around testing (already used in NHS) I can't imagine anyone being off unless covid positive. And that will hopefully just be one week sick leave, as working parents are already used to dealing with

@Izzy30

As an ex teacher I’m horrified at the contempt some teachers have for parents. Of course the school day facilitates parents being able to work- what’s wrong with that? And children deserve an education and being in school is the best way for this to happen for the majority of children.

I think that's a bit unfair. There's growing contempt on both sides. I've seen some horrible, goady comments from teachers to parents but likewise I've seen some horrible, goady comments from parents to teachers. There are no winners or better people in this situation because both sides have been nasty. But that's the way the government like it because instead of a united group of people wanting the same outcome from the government and expecting the government to fund it, we have two sides divided and the government happily turning a blind eye to it all.

@SaltyAndFresh

If you can't close you find solutions to make it work. Like every other essential service does

Yes, and this will almost inevitably involve closing to some pupils, some of the time, which parents are going to have to accept and prepare for. Unless your magic solution involves bigger buildings and more staff.

Prepare for how exactly?

Now, these aren't normal times and schools may close, meaning parents will have to fill the childcare/ education void. They need a plan B, not the schools that will be closed and not responsible for parenting. It's not rocket science.

For many (including myself), Plan B when my childcare was shut was Cbeebies for up to 8 hours a day. Because I had to work. Let's not pretend we can't imagine how parents have survived this far...

I agree that the expectation is that we will have one. Unfortunately, the government is asking us to get back to work and pay income tax/NI, then buy stuff with what's left of our wages and pay VAT. They are also asking us to adhere to social distancing, so not use family as childcare. All I can say is that if nursery closes again I can't do both.

If DS was say 10 and I could WFH then it would be less of an issue but DS needs constant supervision and will do for at least another 18 months.

If COVID positive you have to be off 10 days.

Many schools have the policy that even if a child has a negative test they stay off school until symptoms are gone.

If schools close, services in that wi be impacted as other employees come out of work to care for their DC’s at home. The knock on effect will be staff shortages in all areas with little or no notice - hospitals, emergency services, supermarkets, manufacturing, food transportation and on and on.

I was working full time and did my degree at the same time.

While caring for the 2 year old? Without any childcare? If that's the case, that is pretty amazing!

@ineedaholidaynow

If COVID positive you have to be off 10 days.

Many schools have the policy that even if a child has a negative test they stay off school until symptoms are gone.

I mean I imagine the policy will change and adapt. In NHS if covid negative straight back to work. I can't see why same song apply to schools.

The government won't be able to ignore the struggling working parents

@SaltyAndFresh

it is assumed that within school hours, parents can work. So what kind of Plan B do you suggest?

I can't suggest a Plan B that will work for your circumstances. Neither can I guarantee you childcare if I have no protection form Covid.

Aren't teachers supposed to teach? If you feel so strongly about it why don't you resign and get a job in a supermarket where you can wear PPE - but if you're off sick expect SSP.

Blimey it's getting ridiculous now.

@MumsGoneToIceland Yes that's exactly the point I was making, thank you.

Sadly for those who being a SAHP isn't a viable option financially, or those who simply don't want to do (which is a perfectly valid choice) I think they are going to find that there going to have that thrust upon them anyway in the event of widespread/lengthy school closures. Because employers pay you to work, and if you can't work because your children need you at home then what other choice do you have?

@newnamesameold

I would like to think that over the last 6 months, senior leadership teams have come up with some kind of plan b in case they have to close again in September. Just because your headship have not shared it with you as yet does not mean that this hasn't happened.

Yes but the guidance is clear that this plan B is online learning to a more consistent standard. Doesn’t help at all with childcare.

@askmehowiknow this is what I want to know. I’m
Nhs and staff I work with came back to work once tested negative. Schools should take the same tack. If they are going for 14 days off or whatever then half the school won’t be there from
October to March which is just silly

Schools don't exist for the purpose of childcare. But in practice, our whole society is built around a structure where children aged over 5, are cared for five days a week.

Most working parents have obviously worked everything out around this structure for decades.

A plan b is a luxury that many do not have.

Something that we've all come to terms with over the last 5 months.

When in reality it’s more likely to be common cold/other viral illness than covid

@askmehowiknow

I mean I imagine the policy will change and adapt. In NHS if covid negative straight back to work. I can't see why same song apply to schools.

The government won't be able to ignore the struggling working parents

Yes that's correct - once you get the negative you're right back in there, on the ward, in the office, in the kitchen etc.

We have to get back to some sort of normality.

The idea that school can be perceived as childcare does come directly from the government though otherwise why would those on benefits be penalised for not looking for work once their child is in nursery/school??

[quote AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii]@askmehowiknow this is what I want to know. I’m
Nhs and staff I work with came back to work once tested negative. Schools should take the same tack. If they are going for 14 days off or whatever then half the school won’t be there from
October to March which is just silly[/quote]
I presume they don't want to announce this until they're sure they've got enough tests or something. Don't want to have to back track yet again

But yes obviously this will need to happen. The country can't function with everyone self isolating for 14 days each time some gets a cold!

Just wanted to add that it will be parents of children who are medically vulnerable that will probably feel the brunt of this more.

DH and I are both teachers but our DC is vulnerable and we have it in writing from his surgeon that he should not be in childcare until after Christmas. He is entitled to key worker childcare in the event of lockdown but we can’t use it. We have been advised by both our HR departments to basically come to work full time or quit, regardless of DS’ disability.

We have chosen for my Mum to look after him so one of us doesn’t have to quit. Not everyone will have that option.

Well if myself and my colleagues reduce our working hours then patients wont get the treatment needed. Including contraception, dressings, repeat prescriptions etc. Stop whinging and get on with it. Just like the rest of the country. Be grateful you have a job.