To understand the first, but not the second, third, fourth...

[Sayitagainwhydontyou]

I know that lots of men only show their true nature once children are born, that abuse very commonly starts with pregnancy, and that many women are completely blindsided when their husbands become abusive/neglectful/selfish/useless/detatched after they have a baby...

I am absolutely not saying "what possessed you to have a baby with this man??"

But i am baffled by women who's partners are shit dads, who then go on to have more children with them. It just seems so hugely unfair on the kids.

I think it entirely depends on the situation. Some are forced, some are made to feel worthless and like they have no better options, some kid themselves that things aren't that bad, some are eagerly awaiting the big change in his behaviour that he has promised them, some get pregnant by accident and don't want to have abortions for religious/personal reasons ... the list is endless.

I can think of one thing they probably all have in common though - I bet none of them regret any of their children.

I read on here a poster saying her dh was useless but she wanted more kids and even though she was fairly sure the marriage was doomed she was worried she'd not find anyone else so wanted another baby with him while they were still together. So maybe that factors into it? Or maybe the men make promises to change/"it will be different next time" but don't and it's the same. Or like my aunt - her husband wanted a boy. Had her first- a girl but ok, husband didn't mind too much as the next one would be his boy. A couple of years later along comes the second - another girl. He totally lost interest after that. I remember visiting her in the hospital and he was sitting next to her sulking (like, full on glowering at her like she'd deliberately denied him a son) and then he pissed off to the pub as soon as we'd said hello. And no, he wasn't Henry VIII but he was certainly channelling that energy.

How does it make you feel to know that the judgement of me made me even less likely to leave? Perpetuated the idea that I was useless and worthless and couldn’t be trusted to make any kind of a decision?

I don’t understand why people jump to the “he’s just useless why have another” instead of looking at the situation and asking questions or looking and seeing coercive control,and emotional abuse.

I’m a long time divorced now thank you @Ginfordinner. Went and got the coil as soon as I could and have had no more children since I was in charge of my own fertility. (Am too old now anyway)

@Merryoldgoat

I agree with you OP but it’s hugely unpopular on here.

However, having grown up in a dysfunctional family where there was emotional abuse I’ll never forgive my mother for not leaving her partner and having children with him.

I love my siblings but she had no business having them in the situation she was in.

I’ve seen this too, it’s a reason lots of adult DCs go NC with parents. The children can’t leave or escape the situation themselves. I get some change after the birth of a child but like you say OP subsequent children are a very different matter.

Where it’s more a case of not stepping up as a parent, drinking, using drugs etc and not abuse, I think many show signs before the first let alone subsequent children. Many stay for the lifestyle, finances, they don’t want to live alone without a partner, they think they can change them etc.

It’s why I would always really push the importance of ensuring financial independence before ever having children and not giving it up after.

I have never regretted my kids.

You could have started a whole thread about why so many men are useless and bad fathers, but no, you had to hone in on the women victimised by these man babies and blame them instead. Can you talk us through that decision? I’d really like to understand why.

Totally agree. It's the great unaskable question isn't it. The relationships board is absolutely full of 'I'm so sick of lazy DH not engaging with family life, and leaving me to deal with our two kids, my two from my previous marriage and our dogs who need walking twice a day. To make matters worse I'm 20 weeks pregnant and I just don't have the energy to do it all myself'.

I have a dear friend like this. She can't decide what makes her angrier, the fact that her lovely but hopeless DH doesn't know how to dress his own kids, or the fact that he put his foot down about having number three.

@RiteAid

You could have started a whole thread about why so many men are useless and bad fathers, but no, you had to hone in on the women victimised by these man babies and blame them instead. Can you talk us through that decision? I’d really like to understand why.

Me too. It’s victim blaming and I’d like to know why this is the way it always works.

In a number of cases, women seek affection and attention (that they deserve) through children because they don't get it from their partner.

I do struggle to be empathetic when people post on here saying 'DH won't change a nappy or take the kids anywhere and says I'm too lazy with housework, we have 4 kids, 1,3,5 and 7 what should I do?' And I think 'fuck him off after the first one luv' and can't think of anything constructive to say.

Abusive men however, that's a different matter entirely

With the useless ones, it often appears to be the case that there's a strong degree of socialisation of the woman into a caring role. The threads I've read seem to commonly feature women of low confidence in low paid work who also WANT lots of babies, even though they also want/wish their husbands to change.

My husband and I sit down and work everything out before we go ahead with something - moving in together, holidays, house purchases. Who's doing what, what money we have.

For TTC, we're saving up a pot that will go on equal pension contributions for the pair of us throughout our shared maternity and paternity leave.

No ifs, no buts, we discuss everything til we're comfortable. From what I've heard with friends, we're highly unusual, but I think it should be in PSE lessons.

@RiteAid

You could have started a whole thread about why so many men are useless and bad fathers, but no, you had to hone in on the women victimised by these man babies and blame them instead. Can you talk us through that decision? I’d really like to understand why.

Victimised? Really? In many cases these aren't overtly abusive men. The barriers to leaving aren't necessarily there. What makes these women victims in your view?

My mum was raped in her marriage and locked up for her pregnancies and denied medical care. Hope that helps answer your question!

I think a use is one thing but continuing to ha e kids with someone who is ‘just’ a rubbish parent is quite another. I don’t know why people do, maybe they just hope it’ll be different the next time or they want a other kid so decide better the devil you know?

My mum had me. Dad was useless, they split up. He charmed her into thinking he'd changed. She took him back, she fell pregnant again and it quickly became apparent that nothing had changed. She put him out then for good.

@Sayitagainwhydontyou
As others have said, why not focus your energy on pondering why the hell these men are so abusive, rather than questioning the 'motives' of their poor victims?

Even if you put OBVIOUSLY NOT IN CASES OF ABUSE in your thread title, posters will say you're judging abuse victims. We're not allowed to discuss why women choose to have multiple kids with non abusive men who are lazy or unhelpful.

My sister wore her dh down to agree to a second child despite him not being that great with the first. Then when the kids started school she wore him down about getting a dog. Now she spends her life shouting at her dh, her kids and the dog, and posting gin memes.

My friend is in an abusive relationship. Not physical as far as I know but her partner treats her like shit, sleeps with other women and says it is her fault, etc. We’ve tried to help her leave him but she won’t, she says she loves him. They’ve been “together” 20 years, he’s done a real number on her and she is convinced she can’t survive without him and no one else would want her.
They have 3 kids. She admitted she is trying to get pregnant again “because then he has to stay”. She is terrified he will leave her and thinks that having his children binds him to her somehow.

Walk through explaining how women should leave a situation where they are being controlled and threatened with violence if they leave, and support themselves and their children.

There is no county in the UK where a single woman can afford housing on the average women's wage, lets start there.

''Housing is unaffordable for women in every English region - Women's Budget Group''
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3654459-Housing-is-unaffordable-for-women-in-every-English-region-Womens-Budget-Group

wbg.org.uk/analysis/2018-wbg-briefing-housing-and-gender/

The anonymous vote is interesting as it’s clear that an overwhelming majority (2:1) agree with the OP. This is certainly not reflected in most of the comments on MN about these situations, so I think it’s interesting to get a bit of an insight into how most readers (rather than commentators) think.

I do often has some sympathy with those posters that point out the (lack of) wisdom of having children with a waster and getting jumped on by others. Mainly because I think of all the other people reading on the sidelines in possibly similar positions deciding what to do, and maybe thinking that everyone else is so accepting of the situation rather than pointing out the obvious. I also think that at least these posters point out that the OP has agency over their lives (which is true 99% of the time) and its helpful to articulate that.

Its not being accepting of the situation; its more that theres a difference between discussing a hypothetical scenario, and telling a woman that she shouldn't have had the 4th because it means she cant claim child benefit.

A lot of the partners of useless men don't really expect any better. You see it a lot on here. So much "well men need a housework list drawing up for them, they don't see mess like we do" and "you can't expect your DP to get up in the night with children when he's THE BREADWINNER!" and "lots of men don't relate to babies, I'm sure he'll be fine once the child is older and he can bond with it" and so on and so on.

When male uselessness gets normalised women don't expect that any other men would be any better, so they just grumble a bit about it and carry on rather than think "fucking hell, why is he so useless with his own children, other men aren't like this."

My exh impregnated me without my knowledge or consent. I don't agree with abortion.
Every row he threatened to take my baby with him if he left.
So I stayed and had 2 more dc..
So shoot me.
How dare you comment/judge on someone's life when you have never lived it?
Must be pretty lonely up there on your high horse op.

My sister had a 2nd with her husband after I'm being fairly bad with the 1st. She wanted two children and wanted them to have the same dad. He's still crap and makes her miserable. For me life is too short for this shit. But I'm obviously missing something because she's definitely not alone.

Spend your energy on being baffled why men are abusive, not on why their soul-destroyed victims stay with them

This. I mean, come on OP... do better please.