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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To understand the first, but not the second, third, fourth...

329 replies

Sayitagainwhydontyou · 15/08/2020 08:59

I know that lots of men only show their true nature once children are born, that abuse very commonly starts with pregnancy, and that many women are completely blindsided when their husbands become abusive/neglectful/selfish/useless/detatched after they have a baby...

I am absolutely not saying "what possessed you to have a baby with this man??"

But i am baffled by women who's partners are shit dads, who then go on to have more children with them. It just seems so hugely unfair on the kids.

OP posts:
Noneformethanks · 15/08/2020 22:33

I’m not going to do that. I found this thread incredibly difficult and some of the attitudes towards me and others are disgusting.

I stepped away at 19.45, but somehow hours later I have to be brought back to the thread for some reason. I don’t understand the point of that, if it wasn’t to get a rise of me, why? I am clearly struggling and it’s clear I disagree with the op, I’d made my point and stepped away. Which I’m going to do again.

I’m not here to be poked and prodded for someone’s entertainment and that’s what this feels like right now so sorry, no, there will be no follow up thread started by me so I can get even more of a kicking.

Ginfordinner · 15/08/2020 22:36

@Thelnebriati

Its astonishing how many men who dont want kids have them anyway, sometimes more than one.
There are an awful lot of threads on mumsnet by women who want a/another baby and whose partner is adamant that they don't. I wonder if some of them get pregnant "by accident", or if they partner gets browbeaten unwillingly into parenthood?
Original poster
Sayitagainwhydontyou · 15/08/2020 22:40

noneformethanks my intention in tagging you the second time was to apologise for any upset the thread might have caused. I can see that i made it worse, and I'm sorry for that too.

For what it's worth, i wholeheartedly disagree with the huge amount of shit you've received from other commenters questioning your experience, and I'm really sorry that you've had to go through this all again.

OP posts:
Lovingyou · 15/08/2020 22:44

I think the problem with abuse is that there's no one way that an individual will be abusive and there are so many different levels of abuse. He might not hit, shout or even outwardly put his partner down but men who are "just a bit rubbish" aren't idiots. They know there's a line they can't go over because if they do, it means they'll lose the power they've built up. Just thinking of my own ex. He used to tell me everything in the house belonged to him and I should be grateful for what he had given me and that was why I should do what he wanted - all the time. It worked until I realised I had options.

MadameMeursault · 15/08/2020 23:08

@lemonsandlimes123

noneforme - so you were responsible for getting out of the relationship but not responsible for staying in it?
@lemonsandlimes123 that is absolutely disgusting victim blaming and vile goading of someone who is triggered by this thread. You should be really ashamed of yourself.
Thelnebriati · 15/08/2020 23:36

Ginfordinner
There are an awful lot of threads on mumsnet by women who want a/another baby and whose partner is adamant that they don't

Can those men not have a vasectomy and use a condom?

Salmons · 15/08/2020 23:45

Can those men not have a vasectomy and use a condom?

Yes they could, presumably they stupidly trust that their partner is telling the truth about their contraception.

Babamamananarama · 15/08/2020 23:50

I think there's sometimes an understandable element of fearing being on their own/alone if they leave the useless partner. They then project onto their child this idea of being lonely on their own, and then they 'fix' the problem for their first child with a sibling.

genteelwoman · 16/08/2020 01:09

Have you ever been in an abusive relationship?

This 1question is akin to why on earth do women stay?

Original poster
Sayitagainwhydontyou · 16/08/2020 03:04

@genteelwoman

Have you ever been in an abusive relationship?

This 1question is akin to why on earth do women stay?

Jesus, have you even bothered to read the thread? Yes, I've been in an abusive relationship. However, i have specifically stated multiple times in multiple ways that I am not talking about abuse!
OP posts:
Catsup · 16/08/2020 03:38

To be honest OP it might not have been the thread you 'intended to start', but I'd say it's been very popular in regards to people being able to empathise in how they reacted to it. I'd stick my neck out and state that 'useless/shitty parenting is often hand in hand with' abusive/negative parenting', as its not often a parent can present as being a bit 'lazy' without there being some form of abuse behind that. Even if it's low level. Interesting how much it's sparked a debate/thread though! Lazy parenting to my mind is abusive if the child is too young to have any other say/actions.

pigeonfarts · 16/08/2020 04:38

Erm rape and coercive control from the mans side.

The women and children are the victims here. Ever heard of stockholm syndrome?

pigeonfarts · 16/08/2020 04:39

You're not talking about abuse?

Men who neglect their children are being abusive.

HooverWhenTheCoastIsClear · 16/08/2020 07:30

@Winterwoollies

Spend your energy on being baffled why men are abusive, not on why their soul-destroyed victims stay with them.
This.
CelestialSpanking · 16/08/2020 07:37

@Winterwoollies

Spend your energy on being baffled why men are abusive, not on why their soul-destroyed victims stay with them.
This in spades.
TheNavigator · 16/08/2020 08:20

But the OP isn't asking why women stay with abusive men and has expressed huge sympathy for women trapped in abusive relationships.

What the OP, and others on the thread, were trying to discuss is why women continue to have children with lazy arse feckless blokes, complaining continually he doesn't do a hands turn to help in the house, but then choosing another baby to increase their own pressure and workload.

I don't think some women help, with the narrative that 'men just don't see dirt like we do' 'tee hee he is so useless' 'I have to leave him a list if I am going out' as if this highly paid professional somehow cannot work out a child needs fed and changed without being micro managed.

I am amazed how little this narrative has changed despite the increase of women in the work place. And I do think some women choose to disempower men in the domestice sphere and want to have an area they control and are the 'boss' of their 'tee hee' useless bloke. But it bites them in the bum when children come along.

For the absence of doubt, lazy feckless men and the villians, but why do women continue to procreate with the wasters when their uselessness has been apparant from the get go? Financial security, broodiness and fear of being alone have all been mentioned. But I am alsoe interested in how society facilitates it with the 'silly, endearing, helpless man' trope.

emilybrontescorsett · 16/08/2020 08:29

I'm always amazed at the women who chose to have children, often not their first, with feckless fathers. These men already have children and have shown they don't care about them yet the second wife/partner goes on to have more with them, usually,then moaning when the father shows the same lack of care for the new kids.
If a man is a crap dad to his first set of kids, he will usually be the same with the second set.

Salmons · 16/08/2020 08:30

I agree @TheNavigator. My friend moved in with her boyfriend a few years back, and even before moving in she was laughing at how bad he was at cooking and how she would do it all and he could relax in his 'man cave'. She then complained at how little he did around the house, before having a baby and moaning even more that he did nothing. She has a very good job, she actually owns a rental property that is fully hers, and half the house they currently live in, she could leave, but says all blokes are probably like him. Fair enough, but she now has 3 children and moans incessantly. It's teedious. And ridiculous.

emilybrontescorsett · 16/08/2020 08:32

theNavigator yes just wait for all the Christmas threads saying posters are exhausted after running around after the useless men, whilst they sit on their backsides.

Neron · 16/08/2020 08:37

Lazy parenting to my mind is abusive if the child is too young to have any other say/actions.

So now we are on to children being abused now?

differentnameforthis · 16/08/2020 09:01

Sometimes it also happens the other way around.

I had dd1, dh was besotted - even though he didn't really want children (I actually think now that he only agreed to stop me leaving, although he was very convincing at the time) - because she was a good baby. Very portable, very flexible, calm, easy going.

However, dd2 came along, the polar opposite of her sister, mainly down to autism and he doesn't give 2 shits. Yes he loves her, but he hasn't even tried to get to know how to handle her anxiety/sensory issues and autism. Wasn't there for her dx appointment. She doesn't feel hunger, so if I am out, she can go all day without food because he doesn't think to feed her and my objections are met with "she didn't say she was hungry" ... yet her older sister knows to just give her food.

Asks all the 'right" questions, but doesn't actually want to hear the answers, or put the work in to help me or her.

So yeah, there's that too

NotaCoolMum · 16/08/2020 09:06

My ex was one of those men- perfect up until I had DS then turned awful!! Never helped told me he won’t help because it’s “my job” apparently... I had a stomach bug once when DS was 2. DS woke up crying and I had to vomit as was so ill- Ex refused to get up with DS as he “was tired from working all day” so I had to hold DS while vomiting into the toilet...I knew I’d NEVER bring another child into the world with this awful man so I kicked him out shortly after. DS is a teenager now and his DD still sucks.

Phbq · 16/08/2020 09:17

YANBU. You see a lot of threads where this happens. Unless it's an abusive relationship I don't understand why some women chose lazy unpleasant fathers for their children. A woman's desire to have a kid is less important that any kids right to not have a shite parent forced on them.

Also OP, I think I saw the thread that inspired you to write this thread. I did wonder the same thing.

MarthasGinYard · 16/08/2020 09:30

Yanbu

Have always found this shocking

dontdisturbmenow · 16/08/2020 09:35

Men who neglect their children are being abusive
Except it can't just be taken at face value that every moan about father neglecting their kids actually are.

There've been so many threads about women moaning about their partner not doing enough when comparing with my normality, that is me, family members and friends, it's the poster who has uneasonable expectations and is just lazy.

Posters really struggle to appreciate that we only ever get one side of the story and most situations are a matter of perspective.

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