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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To understand the first, but not the second, third, fourth...

329 replies

Sayitagainwhydontyou · 15/08/2020 08:59

I know that lots of men only show their true nature once children are born, that abuse very commonly starts with pregnancy, and that many women are completely blindsided when their husbands become abusive/neglectful/selfish/useless/detatched after they have a baby...

I am absolutely not saying "what possessed you to have a baby with this man??"

But i am baffled by women who's partners are shit dads, who then go on to have more children with them. It just seems so hugely unfair on the kids.

OP posts:
Tuskys · 15/08/2020 19:37

This thread isn't about abuse FFS, why are people centering it around that.

Noneformethanks · 15/08/2020 19:40

Because the op started her post with that.

If she hadn’t wanted it to be about abuse she didn’t need to mention it.

And because no one actually ever knows what goes on behind closed doors.

And abuse is far far more common than people like to think, and buy talking about it here maybe just maybe peopLe will think and not judge that 15 year old who trapped an older man with a baby.

Annist · 15/08/2020 19:43

She started the thread specifically excluding the small amount of women who experience extreme abuse. That's obviously a completely different scenario.

Noneformethanks · 15/08/2020 19:45

But, again, how does ANYONE know looking from the outside in?

Dumakey · 15/08/2020 19:47

So according to this thread there are no grey relationship areas. You're either in a perfect relationship or an abusive one. Apparently there is nothing in between and so women cant be held accountable for anything. It's no bloody wonder we haven't come as far as we would like with equality.

Annist · 15/08/2020 19:53

No one knows about any one individual relationship but we do have general statistics to go by. This is like someone trying to have a conversation about sea safety specifically excluding shark attacks and other posters simply will not leave shark attacks out it. It's absurd to think every single relationship with a feckless father is abusive.

Hotandknackered · 15/08/2020 20:11

Such a frustrating thread. From reading and participating it seems the conclusions are:

All non great relationships are abusive, women should not be personally accountable for their decisions in any way, no one has any right to ask women to justify their decisions no matter how seemingly nonsensical, women are completely justified in having multiple children with men who are bad fathers.

Neron · 15/08/2020 20:19

All non great relationships are abusive, women should not be personally accountable for their decisions in any way, no one has any right to ask women to justify their decisions no matter how seemingly nonsensical, women are completely justified in having multiple children with men who are bad fathers.

Nailed it.

NurseButtercup · 15/08/2020 20:35

I haven't read the entire thread, but in answer to the op, the reason explained to me for baby no 2,3 and 4 to a useless man, are:
1.the sex was good
2.wanted x number of kids but wanted the children to have the same father.
3.didn't want to or had low self-esteem so didn't look for a new partner.

  1. He's useless but harmless.

I know at least three women that have given these reasons.

Original poster
Sayitagainwhydontyou · 15/08/2020 20:36

@Noneformethanks

But, again, how does ANYONE know looking from the outside in?
As i said, it doesn't matter whether people can tell from the outside or not! I'm not asking about relationships that don't appear abusive, I'm asking about relationships that aren't abusive!
OP posts:
ALongHardWinter · 15/08/2020 20:39

Maybe this is unusual,but I actually know someone who has a useless husband,and she has refused point blank to have any more kids wit him. I must stress that he's not abusive or violent at all,basically just very lazy and won't lift a finger to do anything involving childcare or housework. As the OP mentioned,she only discovered his true colours once their child was born.
When their child was 2,he started making noises about having another one but she said that unless he seriously bucked his ideas up,there wouldn't be any more. Their child is now nearly 14! The mum is now 37 and works full time,so she has said 1) she considers herself 'too old' to have another baby now,and the age gap would be too big,and 2) they couldn't afford for her to give up work.

disorganisedsecretsquirrel · 15/08/2020 21:05

Yes HotandKnackered THAT is exactly the narrative being proposed!!

CharityRoyall · 15/08/2020 21:38

This is an interesting thread. I’m so sorry to all the women on here who have experienced/are experiencing abusive relationships. Like some other PP I didn’t read the OP that way and it put me in mind of a friend from school. We hadn’t seen each other for a few years but I knew from FB she was married with a baby. When we met up I asked her how it was all going and she said rubbish, her husband gamed constantly, was lazy and showed no interest in her/their child or doing things together. Apparently he had always been like that but she thought he’d change when they had a child. She said she was miserable and planning on leaving him (luckily she has a close, supportive and fairly wealthy family, she would have been alright). That was 3 years ago. We’ve chatted a few times since on social media and she always says the same thing (hasn’t left yet) but she’s unhappy, he’s lazy, he’s crap with their kid. I really did empathise.
Then a few weeks ago she announced on FB they were expecting their second child, complete with gushing status. I just despair. It’s none of my business, but a certain amount of empathy has certainly dried up.

Original poster
Sayitagainwhydontyou · 15/08/2020 22:08

@Noneformethanks has that clarified my position for you?

It's clear that this has been a very stressful thread for you, and I'm sorry if it's been triggering. That wasn't my intention - I tried to be clear in my first response that I wasn't talking about abusive relationships. I'm not sure where your misconseption came from, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at now.

I'm truly sorry for what you've suffered, and I hope you, and the other posters who have shared their stories, are now safe and living fulfilling, happy lives.

OP posts:
Noneformethanks · 15/08/2020 22:14

[quote Sayitagainwhydontyou]@Noneformethanks has that clarified my position for you?

It's clear that this has been a very stressful thread for you, and I'm sorry if it's been triggering. That wasn't my intention - I tried to be clear in my first response that I wasn't talking about abusive relationships. I'm not sure where your misconseption came from, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at now.

I'm truly sorry for what you've suffered, and I hope you, and the other posters who have shared their stories, are now safe and living fulfilling, happy lives.[/quote]
Whe have you done this? Tagged and goaded me when I had stepped away from the thread because it was so triggering and upsetting?

I didn’t misconception anything. I get what you’re saying. I disagree.
because you never ever ever know what’s going on Behind closed doors

I was the cheap tart whotrapped a decent man and deserved all she got and probably made it all up anyway.

Except. That’s not MY truth.

This type of thread perpetuates those myths and perpetuates the perception that leads to people like me not being believed.

Look at what’s been said to me and others on this thread.

What happened to we believe you?

I got out as soon as I was able. It’s clearly not enough and I should what? Castigate myself for the rest of my life? Sack cloth? Ashes? Or just know myself that I did my best and left as soon as I could.

What good does this thread actually do? It’s horrible and judgemental. In my opinion. It doesn’t change anything excepts let’s smug people sit and go well it can’t be that bad she should just leave why doesn’t she.

MsEllany · 15/08/2020 22:16

[quote fuckingcovid]@MsEllany It seems to me OP just wants to make women who have children who don't have the ideal father, of any type, feel bad. If you read her statement it is clearly victim blaming, even if the woman is only guilty of poor choices. [/quote]
You keep saying ‘clearly’ when I and others do not agree with you.

Original poster
Sayitagainwhydontyou · 15/08/2020 22:19

@noneformethanks i am very sorry this thread has upset you, but i have absolutely no idea how to make you understand that situations like yours are not what I'm talking about!!

I'm not talking about abuse! Just general useless men. I really don't understand why you're finding it so hard to understand. It doesn't matter whether the relationship appears perfectly normal or just one with a useless man, or whatever - if it is abusive it is not the sort of relationship i am talking about.

OP posts:
Hotandknackered · 15/08/2020 22:20

I'll not tag pp because she has said it is triggering. But I would like to address the idea that by asking women to take any responsibility we are somehow enabling abuse. Should we not ask women to make sensible decisions on the off chance they are being abused? I feel this is quite a slippery slope in terms of acceptable choices and parenting.

MsEllany · 15/08/2020 22:20

Can’t see any place at all where anyone has voiced the ‘cheap tart trapped a good man’.

I’m sorry for your experiences noneformethanks but this thread isn’t about you, or experiences even similar to yours. You might not have had the facility to leave an abusive man but you can hide this thread and turn off notifications so it doesn’t upset you.

Noneformethanks · 15/08/2020 22:21

Please I have already made it clear I don’t like to be tagged and brought back to the thread. Please stop tagging me.

Noneformethanks · 15/08/2020 22:24

I have asked not to be tagged. I clearly was ignoring the thread and not coming back until the op decided to tag me to Bring me back to the thread.

It’s an awful thread with a terrible premise behind it.

What harm does it do to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that adult humans must have a reason and they will leave if and when they are ready? And if it isn’t that bad for them and they just want a moan then that’s ok too.

But sometimes. It’s more. And I’d rather not say some of what’s been aimed at me on this thread (and deleted) and just bloody be kind.

But hey ho.

Original poster
Sayitagainwhydontyou · 15/08/2020 22:26

I apologise, tagging was a poor call.

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 15/08/2020 22:26

Its astonishing how many men who dont want kids have them anyway, sometimes more than one.

Tuskys · 15/08/2020 22:30

Hide the thread, jeez.

disorganisedsecretsquirrel · 15/08/2020 22:30

Noneformethanks you obviously have a lot of great insight to offer on the issue of abuse .. why don't you start a thread based on your experience ? I truly think it would be beneficial and worthwhile.. you have a great deal of insight in this awful aspect of life ...

Don't go on AIBU as it's a vipers nest of people looking for a fight for whatever reason.. post on 'relationships' where your experience plus help an awful lot of people .