The song ‘WAP’ does not deserve the fawning plaudits? (NSFW)

[Redolent]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

WAP by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Stands for Wet Ass Pussy. That’s all what the whole song is about. Consensus seems to be that’s it a great anthem about female sexual empowerment. The New York Times: “An event record that transcends the event itself.” The Los Angeles Times: “A savage, nasty, sex-positive triumph.” For the high-brow publication Pitchfork, Cardi/Megan ‘center themselves as women in order to freely celebrate their coveted power, sex appeal, and A1 WAP.’

Sample lyrics:

“ I wanna gag, I wanna choke/I want you to touch that little dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat.”

“ “Gobble me, swallow me/Drip down inside of me/Quick jump out ’fore you let it get inside of me,”

Rest here: genius.com/Cardi-b-wap-lyrics

——

To me think the crassness of the song is so boring. I’m not outraged or aghast. I just don’t think it’s sexy in the slightest (others clearly disagree). The song talks about pussies so much they may as well be rapping about a pair of shoes. But I cannot seriously accept that this is video and song are anthem of liberating empowerment, with its pole dancing, strip club visuals and sexual cliches. Listen to the song all you want but let’s pretend these are role models.

Well it tends to be women (or gay men, I guess) who enjoy having a cock rammed down their throat...

That's what porn wants you to believe, anyway. Ramming cocks down throats just screams of consent, doesn't it.

I don't listen to that type of music so admittedly I had to google....

"Sit on my face, cause I ain't too picky
And ride my mouth till your pussy gets sticky

Delightful.

I'm not arguing that the original song is good, merely that the woman can sing about and enjoy whatever the fuck they want to. They can dress however they want to, dance however they want to, make money however they want to. If that's not empowering to women then I don't really understand feminism and I'll refrain from calling myself a feminist, even though I worked hard to make it in male dominated industry and work even harder to ensure other girls can because it's what THEY want to do.

I take issue that what she appears to enjoy doesn't fit with what some sections of society deem is appropriate for a woman to enjoy and therefore not acceptable. Because I've battled with that all my life at work (how can a female enjoy working with tools?) and apparently now society has views on what sex women can or can't enjoy too. Which is my understanding of how life was in the 1950s. Progress

That's what porn wants you to believe, anyway. Ramming cocks down throats just screams of consent, doesn't it.

Just because it's not something you would consent to doesn't mean you get to take that away from others.

Like I said upthread it's pretty common for women (especially those in more dominant / controlling roles) to CONSENSUALLY give up control in the bedroom.

Only on Mumsnet do women not enjoy porn and no women enjoy rough sex.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/opinion/why-some-women-fantasise-about-forceful-sex-and-why-thats-nothing-to-be-ashamed-of-212098/amp

I do enjoy rough sex actually. But i don't think you'd find many women who enjoy having a cock rammed down their throat for its own sake.

Not heard the song, but this thread reminds me of being 8 years old and the adults being aghast at us singing "Like A Virgin, touch for the very first time" lol
Nothing changes!

I take issue that what she appears to enjoy doesn't fit with what some sections of society deem is appropriate for a woman to enjoy and therefore not acceptable. Because I've battled with that all my life at work (how can a female enjoy working with tools?) and apparently now society has views on what sex women can or can't enjoy too. Which is my understanding of how life was in the 1950s. Progress

This!

Are blowjobs empowering? Blowjobs are one of the worst sexual acts in porn for degrading women. Does any woman really want some guys dick up against her tonsils? Really and truly? There's no other sexual act she might enjoy more than isn't based entirely on his pleasure?

So, according to that logic, cunnilingus must be really degrading for men to perform in porn? Having a sweaty vulva against his tongue?

@tyrinn

I don't listen to that type of music so admittedly I had to google....

"Sit on my face, cause I ain't too picky
And ride my mouth till your pussy gets sticky

Delightful.

I'm not arguing that the original song is good, merely that the woman can sing about and enjoy whatever the fuck they want to. They can dress however they want to, dance however they want to, make money however they want to. If that's not empowering to women then I don't really understand feminism and I'll refrain from calling myself a feminist, even though I worked hard to make it in male dominated industry and work even harder to ensure other girls can because it's what THEY want to do.

I take issue that what she appears to enjoy doesn't fit with what some sections of society deem is appropriate for a woman to enjoy and therefore not acceptable. Because I've battled with that all my life at work (how can a female enjoy working with tools?) and apparently now society has views on what sex women can or can't enjoy too. Which is my understanding of how life was in the 1950s. Progress

Women are dying because of 'rough sex'. The killer of Grace Millane, who reckons that she died during ' sexual choking gone wrong' is currently appealing his conviction. The killer of Natalie Connolly was out in 18 months because apparently she wanted to be beaten to a pulp and have a bottle of carpet cleaner inserted into her vagina during sex...

Because who are we to tell women what they do and don't want eh? Who are we to dictate what women enjoy during sex? Maybe she wanted to be choked or beaten to death, maybe she consented to it. I mean women love it these days, unlike these prudes who are stuck in the 1950s and don't think that glamourising men choking women is a good thing.

Still waiting for the 'empowering' male song featuring unpleasant acts (I'm not sure if that's what that first example is supposed to be? )

It's only a certain type of left wing woman who is celebrating this song. By certain type of woman I mean usually a white woman who is so woke she believes that sex work is a respectable job akin to working in an office and that men who self identify as women should be allowed access to all women's areas. I am not being critical of women trapped in sex work but there's a lot of human pain and suffering by the "workers" which can not and should not be ignored. I suspect that there's an element of trying to be supportive of black womens voices in light of BLM even though many black women may prefer people talking about black women other than the sexy types in music videos.
I grew up with Madonna being considered the most amoral of them all and remember others like Christina Aguilera's Dirrty being talked about.
They clearly wanted to create a video and song that people talked about but it had to be more shocking than previous songs to get people's attention. The use of Kylie Jenner in the middle is a classic "let's get people talking even if it's negative" decision.
The only empowering bit that I can think of is that 2 women make money from the song but this is a wild guess.

its hardly surprising for Cardi B, but I dont like it.
She always strikes me as the sort of girl who would beat you up at school

It's only a certain type of left wing woman who is celebrating this song.

Yeah, probably the same kind of woman who wears a t-shirt which says 'Will Suck Dick for Socialism' because that's so, like, empowering.

As someone said in the other thread: Feminism is now doing exactly what men want you to do but pretending it’s your choice.

Because who are we to tell women what they do and don't want eh? Who are we to dictate what women enjoy during sex?

Exactly. Lets shut down the estimated 62% of woman who have these fantasies because men kill women. Lets not focus on the males being killers here, it's the women's fault for daring to admit to enjoying something that doesn't suit this weird "feminist" narrative.

Feminism is now doing exactly what men want you to do but pretending it’s your choice.

Do men all think the same now? 😂

I can only speak for myself and my small circle of friends who are under 30 but the whole "porn is destroying the way men see sex" is bullshit. Our experience is it's way more common to find men who either want to be dominated by the female, have no interest in rough sex, or will partake but only because it's what the female partner wants.

I just asked my husband who said a gaggy rough BJ is less pleasurable than a "normal" one. I'm not going to pretend he speaks for all men though.

And outside of the bedroom the statement gets even more ridiculous IME. I've spent my whole career dealing with old misogynistic shits. Don't pretend like men want us as managers and in positions of power.

Lets not focus on the males being killers here

Oh I'm very much focused on the males being the killers. I'm very much focused on the fact males are literally getting away with murder because apparently all women love to be choked and it is turning into a rather convenient defence. I'm very much focused on the fact that an act that was, even just a decade ago, a pretty niche and dangerous kink practised among a small number of experienced people, now appears to be mainstream among young women. And that this shift has coincided almost perfectly with the unfettered availability of violent porn to young men. But yeah.... I totally think its women's fault

@Branleuse

its hardly surprising for Cardi B, but I dont like it. She always strikes me as the sort of girl who would beat you up at school

There is literally no intersectionality or awareness of power impact on this forum.

I'd love it if every post indicated the race and nationality of the poster so we could see this thread is potentially filled with lots of British, middle-class white women having a pop once again at the low-hanging fruit that is rap music made by black women.

Black women who are held to a much, much higher standard than their male counterparts who have been singing and rapping smut ever since Akinyele implored us to "put it in your mouth" a quarter of a century ago or more.

The whole genre in fact is treated like a musical Cinderella by most posters. Shall never ever come to the ball unless it meets certain stringent social and moral criteria.

Meanwhile Guns and Roses can sing any amount of degoratory stuff about women but whoa - don't judge! Appetite for Destruction is a classic! They were all just misguided young men and that was LA metal in the late 80s ...

Fucks sake. I could name dozens of examples like this. Rock music with its sexual excess and dark lyrics, but rap? Whoa they're SPEAKING IT, and we have a fear of black sexuality especially in women, so no! Ban the records at once.

P.S where were you when Lil Kim was rapping all this and more over 20 years ago?

I'm very much focused on the fact that an act that was, even just a decade ago, a pretty niche and dangerous kink practised among a small number of experienced people, now appears to be mainstream among young women. And that this shift has coincided almost perfectly with the unfettered availability of violent porn to young men.

How can you possibly know this was niche when this is arguably the first generation where women can actually speak freely about their sexual desires? The same tool we'd use to gather information on the desires of young women - the internet - is the same one that brought freely available porn. The internet as we know it was invented because of porn. And even IF you could somehow prove that women haven't been fantasising about violent sex and being dominated since the caveman days, that violent porn isn't just watched by young men, is it? A quarter of women's porn searches are for violent sex.

A quick google backs this up....

Those statistics make for fairly surprising reading, but are the facts Dr Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, a former Google data scientist, discovered when he was given complete access to PornHub's search and views data for his upcoming book. "If there is a genre of porn in which violence is perpetrated against a woman, my analysis of the data shows that it almost always appeals disproportionately to women," he writes.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/bm9w7v/why-are-so-many-women-searching-for-ultra-violent-porn

Wasn't the question whether you find it empowering rather than finding it acceptable? I don't find guns and roses empowering either, not sure what that comparison is supposed to be about. Unless I missed the point where they became a key player in the feminist movement.

*Ban the records at once.

I don't think anyone is saying 'ban the records' - my problem is mostly with this being held up as a shining example of 'female empowerment'. Why does 'female empowerment' always seem to have to be about things that men benefit from?

Meanwhile Guns and Roses can sing any amount of degoratory stuff about women but whoa - don't judge! Appetite for Destruction is a classic! They were all just misguided young men and that was LA metal in the late 80s ...

I'm not sure it was women who decided that Appetite for Destruction was 'a classic'? The lyrics behind some of their songs are absolutely vile and the stories behind them even worse.

I'm not sure it was women who decided that Appetite for Destruction was 'a classic'?

O wow.
I can tell you now lots of women love Guns N Roses and would put their songs up there as being classics me being one of them
know tons of other Guns N Roses fans who are female too.

@Quaagars there is no point arguing with @KingFredsTache. KingFredsTache has decided what women do and do not like on behalf of all of us, regardless of other peoples opinions and experiences. I wish I knew what brand of feminism this was so I could avoid it.

How can you possibly know this was niche when this is arguably the first generation where women can actually speak freely about their sexual desires?

Lol, you are under 30 you say? Ah yes, millenials invented sex! No woman ever got sexual pleasure before this generation came along. They certainly never talked about it.

How come More and Just Seventeen never featured choking or anal, they just had sexually explicit 'position' diagrams. Whereas now Teen Vogue gives teenagers guides to anal for 'people without a prostate' with diagrams that don't even feature a clitoris? Were teenage girls in the 80s and 90s begging for these mags to give them guides on 'safe choking' or 'how to get gagged comfortably' and the magazines ignoring their market?

When I was first started out in sex (and I'm really not that old) choking was not a thing, at all. It never even occurred to me, it was firmly in the BDSM camp which I was not interested in at all. No man on a ONS ever put his hands near my throat, never pulled my hair, never spat on me or slapped me. And it wasn't a thing amongst my friends either. Maybe we were just a massive bunch of prudes.

@KingFredsTache

Lets not focus on the males being killers here

Oh I'm very much focused on the males being the killers. I'm very much focused on the fact males are literally getting away with murder because apparently all women love to be choked and it is turning into a rather convenient defence. I'm very much focused on the fact that an act that was, even just a decade ago, a pretty niche and dangerous kink practised among a small number of experienced people, now appears to be mainstream among young women. And that this shift has coincided almost perfectly with the unfettered availability of violent porn to young men. But yeah.... I totally think its women's fault

So because men use the sexual proclivity of some women to murder others, the answer to that is to stop women expressing such proclivities?

When do you reckon might be a good time to stop holding women accountable for the actions of a few terrible men?

I have been in situations with friends where everyone is talking about how they don't like giving blow jobs and I have to really pluck up some courage to unashamedly say "aaah I love it, nothing gets me in the mood like giving a blow job". I like being degraded and playing the "sex slave" in the bedroom. If I were to take control and only do things for my pleasure then it would not be good sex for me, what is empowering about that?

IMO it is empowering for women to be able to do what they enjoy during sex without feeling guilty, ashamed or like they are doing something wrong (provided it is legal, of course).

Whilst I don't think it's a particularly good song, I certainly don't think it's disgusting for women to sing about what they enjoy sexually. Why the fuck shouldn't they? Because a white MC woman says its not good for feminism? I think it's great for femenism 🤷‍♀️

@KingFredsTache

How can you possibly know this was niche when this is arguably the first generation where women can actually speak freely about their sexual desires?

Lol, you are under 30 you say? Ah yes, millenials invented sex! No woman ever got sexual pleasure before this generation came along. They certainly never talked about it.

How come More and Just Seventeen never featured choking or anal, they just had sexually explicit 'position' diagrams. Whereas now Teen Vogue gives teenagers guides to anal for 'people without a prostate' with diagrams that don't even feature a clitoris? Were teenage girls in the 80s and 90s begging for these mags to give them guides on 'safe choking' or 'how to get gagged comfortably' and the magazines ignoring their market?

When I was first started out in sex (and I'm really not that old) choking was not a thing, at all. It never even occurred to me, it was firmly in the BDSM camp which I was not interested in at all. No man on a ONS ever put his hands near my throat, never pulled my hair, never spat on me or slapped me. And it wasn't a thing amongst my friends either. Maybe we were just a massive bunch of prudes.

Ah yes. You (& your friends) weren't into it so it didn't exist.

I do love it when some women care to dictate to other women their sexual preferences.

Because you weren't / aren't into it, those that are into it must only be into it because they're being manipulated by men / porn. Poor naïve souls. Lucky we have you to explain our thoughts / feelings / desires to us, and to remind us of the feminist rules for sexuality.