The song ‘WAP’ does not deserve the fawning plaudits? (NSFW)

[Redolent]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

WAP by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Stands for Wet Ass Pussy. That’s all what the whole song is about. Consensus seems to be that’s it a great anthem about female sexual empowerment. The New York Times: “An event record that transcends the event itself.” The Los Angeles Times: “A savage, nasty, sex-positive triumph.” For the high-brow publication Pitchfork, Cardi/Megan ‘center themselves as women in order to freely celebrate their coveted power, sex appeal, and A1 WAP.’

Sample lyrics:

“ I wanna gag, I wanna choke/I want you to touch that little dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat.”

“ “Gobble me, swallow me/Drip down inside of me/Quick jump out ’fore you let it get inside of me,”

Rest here: genius.com/Cardi-b-wap-lyrics

——

To me think the crassness of the song is so boring. I’m not outraged or aghast. I just don’t think it’s sexy in the slightest (others clearly disagree). The song talks about pussies so much they may as well be rapping about a pair of shoes. But I cannot seriously accept that this is video and song are anthem of liberating empowerment, with its pole dancing, strip club visuals and sexual cliches. Listen to the song all you want but let’s pretend these are role models.

CrazyToast

I think it depends on what men you mix with. Maybe 95% of middle class men it would scare but many cultures view sex differently British culture is still very uptight about sex

Most men I know I think would love it though might scare a few

YANBU.

Load of shite. Empowering my arse.

Haven’t read the thread but I agree and I give a huge side eye to all of the publications who are promoting this as a song about female empowerment. It’s promoting female entrapment and no I’m not a pearl clutching prude. It’s boring, L’il Kim did it 20 years ago.

You can tell there a ton of powerful men behind these 2 handmaidens trying to sell this shit to the Instagram generation. We need to be aware there are nefarious types in powerful media positions who want to promote being a mans cumbucket as being an ‘empowered choice’.

@RiteAid

‘I don’t want anybody else, when I think about you I touch myself’ - fine

‘Like a virgin, touched for the very first time’ - fine

‘I’ll show you how to take me, Go down, go down, go down’ - fine

‘Golden shower, latex thong, licorice whip, strap it on’ - fine

‘Hey, they say that a stitch in time saves nine, They say I better stop or I'll go blind’ - fine

‘He told me that I’d never/ With his educated eyes/ And his head between my thighs’ - fine

WAP / Karmasutra / Anaconda - all not fine, all cause outrage, all get mumsnet hot under the collar.

What could possibly be the reason?

It’s surely a coincidence that nobody bats an eyelid when white women sing explicit songs about sex, eh? No doubt there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation which OP will leap to provide as to why there’s something fundamentally different about WAP. Can’t wait.

Billie Eilish’s ‘Bad Guy’. A song that perpetuates the notion that a 17 old girl can ‘seduce your dad’, when in fact that relationship is predatory at its very core. No girl holds power in that relationship whatever she tells herself. There was a lengthy, frothing MumsNet thread about it (justifiably).

Azealia Banks’ 212. A song that crudely references oral sex, and enjoying it. No problems with that on my end, not gonna start a thread about it. Also a banger.

What’s more patronizing is selling this stuff to us as evidence of female empowerment, and shutting down disagreement by referencing black womanhood.

@TheStoic

Give me a better explanation of the consistent pattern visible everywhere of white women being praised for activities that black women are condemned for.

Give me an example of white women doing this.

You can’t. If you could, we would already have talked about it.

If you can, I personally won’t like that either. It’s crass, unsexy, embarrassing.

Is it ok with you if I don’t like it?

Madonna - whole career is built on sex, a book, fetish themed video, also took Vouging from the black community but that’s a different topic

Britney - songs about sex, masterbation, sexualised costumes from the start of her career

Christina - Dirrty... was billed as the anti Britney and overly sexualised

Miley Cyrus - the twerking, backed videos, songs about sex and Masterbation

Lily Allen - Hard For A Bitch had TeTe Bang twerking, Lily with a sign about her ‘baggy pussy’

Kylie - the song kids is about sex and what she wants to do.

Lana Del Rey - ‘My Pussy tastes like Pepsi cola’... also about her relationship with Harvey Weinstein and how he gave her gifts for sex, songs about sleeping with married men and doing things their wives don’t

Princess Superstar - Bad Babysitter song..

Iggy Azalea - pretty obvious here!

I haven’t heard the song but the lyrics you’ve posted reminded me of these two images:

The issue nowadays is the accessibility of music. Instead of having to go to HMV to buy it (the radio wouldn't play the explicit version during the day at least), anyone who has access to the internet, including young children can watch it on YouTube or listen on Spotify. I don't believe that music should be censored just in case children hear it, but it's scary how it's creeping into the mainstream. Also I don't think it's particularly liberating, and not really comparable to men. They sing about women's vaginas and have half naked women dance in their videos; the equal would be for them to sing about ejaculating explicitly (they don't, make it rain, finish in her face isn't as explicit as saying ejaculating penis), and having men dance around half naked. And sure, some women enjoy the type of stuff mentioned, for others it's just another way to feel inferior and for young women to worry about whether they're 'wet' enough or not, and it gives the okay to blokes to speak about it like that- it isn't reclaiming anything. Also disagree that white women get away with it more, that is true in many areas of entertainment; but in this particular situation, what song is as explicit as this one? Any? No. And there has been contraversy around all of them. That said, fair play to them it's a good song, and I hope it's successful for them, I just don't agree that it should be lauded as some kind of revolution.

@JustanAunt

Poptart4

R&B and rap songs are filled with sexually explicit songs, many of the artists are lesser known so it is not unusual that you won’t know of any, they do exist though.

I am not pretending this is empowering to women. I stated in another comment that I do not believe that. I just hate the outrage that exists because they are women. People can make songs about whatever they like, you dont have to listen to it.

@JustanAunt I have been a rap and r&b fan since my teens. That's 20+ years. I have never heard a male artist being this graphic in one of their songs. I'm fully prepared to be proven wrong but from my knowledge the men never get this nasty.

Anyone who compares their fanny to a pot of macaroni is a wrong un in my opinion.

Also the song is terrible.

@MorganKitten none of the artists you have listed were as graphic lyrically as WAP is. Also each and everyone of these artists were vilified in the press at the time they released their songs.

Madonna has made a career out of offending people.

I was 15 when Britney Spears released "hit me baby one more time". I can still remember the up roar her belly top and school uniform caused. That video wouldn't even raise an eyebrow these days.

Christina Aguilera Dirty was also shocking and banned from some channels at the time.

Iggy Azalea has been vilified her whole career, mainly because she is a WHITE girl who dares to rap. No black artist has experienced such public and blatant racism as Iggy has.

As for Miley Cyrus. Are you seriously telling me she has never been criticised or attacked for her songs and performances!?!.

Just to add you have no idea what my or anyone else's race is on this forum.

This is not a black/white issue so you and @RiteAid can F* right off trying to twist this thread into something it's not.

This is the first time I've encountered the song and tbh it's hilarious. It's so gross... like not sexy - gushy?? It's like a caricature

@Poptart4 where did I say anyone’s race on this forum, please show me before accusing me of that. You don’t know my race either.

I mentioned other singers you didn’t try to ‘correct’ me on.

JustanAunt I have been a rap and r&b fan since my teens. That's 20+ years. I have never heard a male artist being this graphic in one of their songs. I'm fully prepared to be proven wrong but from my knowledge the men never get this nasty. @Poptart4

Brian McKnight - Ready To Learn
Marvin Sease - Condom On Your Tongue
Project Pat - Let’s Run A Train
Three 6 Mafia - Slob On My Knob
Plies - Ms. Pretty Pussy
2 Live Crew - We Want Pussy

People freaking out over this song is hilarious, you clearly have never listened to anything Megan the stallion has written (Savage doesn't count!) Most of her music is equally if not more sexually explicit and no one on mumsnet is having palpitations over it 🤣

Whats with feminists telling other (usually younger) women how they should be women? Shouldn't we just say hmm that's not for me but obviously a lot of other women really like this so I will just carry on listening to Madonna because that's about as much explicit language as I can handle.

Whats with feminists telling other (usually younger) women how they should be women?

It's not telling women how to be women. It is acknowledging that sometimes women make poor choices which harm other women because it suits them to. For example making money off a song which is just the same old same old male gaze centring and claiming women use sex as a commodity.

It is acknowledging that the men people behind this are not 'empowering' women and that people with actual power do not gyrate half naked whilst singing about their genitals. It is acknowledging that by dressing this up as 'empowering', young women are duped into doing exactly what a patriarchal society wants them to do (look pretty, be sexually available) only this time they think they chose it and they think it is somehow giving them power - when it is just the same old same old repackaged to make them feel more in charge. It is a way of tricking them into shutting up and being compliant and complicit in their own ongoing objectification.

It is acknowledging the con that is being perpetrated on young women. Acknowledging the con is not the same as telling other women what to do, it isn't even judging the women involved; it is simply acknowledging the con.

Whats with feminists telling other (usually younger) women how they should be women? Shouldn't we just say hmm that's not for me but obviously a lot of other women really like this so I will just carry on listening to Madonna because that's about as much explicit language as I can handle.

Absolutely agree with this.

I mean unless I'm categorically missing something the song is mostly about oral sex being performed on a woman.

And even if it wasn't... I heard the word "cumbucket" being used up thread. Maybe some women like that 😂? Who is anyone else to tell a woman what they like or don't like?

I highly suspect the rise in the "pornification" of society i.e women - shock horror - enjoying rough sex is probably down to the types of roles women have in society. Lots spend the whole day making decisions / managing a team of men / being in positions of authority / stressed / in control that when it comes to the bedroom it can feel good to give up that control. Or maybe they just like rough sex. Who cares.

And if THIS is feminism... good luck getting the next generation on board.

It is acknowledging that by dressing this up as 'empowering', young women are duped into doing exactly what a patriarchal society wants them to do (look pretty, be sexually available) only this time they think they chose it and they think it is somehow giving them power - when it is just the same old same old repackaged to make them feel more in charge. It is a way of tricking them into shutting up and being compliant and complicit in their own ongoing objectification.

It is acknowledging the con that is being perpetrated on young women. Acknowledging the con is not the same as telling other women what to do, it isn't even judging the women involved; it is simply acknowledging the con.

You excel at making an acknowledgement sound really really patronising.

Maybe some women like make up. Maybe it makes some women feel good if they think they look good.

70 years ago could a woman get up and sing about receiving oral sex? Nope. We have the power to do that now. The woman wants to sing about oral sex, and she did. If people don't like it they can choose not to listen.

No one is saying people shouldn't listen to it, just that in their opinion they don't see it as female empowerment. If the next generation of feminists would demand everyone to feel the same as them about everything, then no thanks. May as well just listen to men continue to tell us how to think and feel.

Oh! It's alright. Those women are having sex with men for 'stuff'. They choose to do it, they feel OK doing it, they are upfront about it... There's some whores in this house and we support sex workers, don't we? And all women who choose to exchange sex for cars, tuition fees, a ring, whatever! But that's OK cos every man is stupid, led by his dick
You really ain't never gotta fuck him for a thang (Yeah)
He already made his mind up 'fore he came (Ayy, ah)
That's why the gyrations and spouting nipples, loosen his wallet.

I'm fairly certain that's not empowerment, of anyone! It's commerce!

As for it being a race thing... ah, maybe not! There are times when shouting racism becomes a dog whistle. This is one of them.

70 years ago could a woman get up and sing about receiving oral sex? Nope. We have the power to do that now. The woman wants to sing about oral sex, and she did. If people don't like it they can choose not to listen. You need to look a little further back. Try looking at the lyrics of some music hall songs.

Look at many blues songs.

You may need to brush up on the language used but yes, lots of those women sang abut all sorts of sex, transactional and otherwise.

This is not new. Nor is it groundbreaking. It's just the same old same old, but less lyrically clever, more obvious, more overtly shocking. Excpet it misses it mark on so many levels. Posters here aren't shocked by it, more angered by the continued commodification of sex.

I remember watching Beyoncé in concert with some male dancers. The male dancers were fully dressed and she was wearing what looked like underwear and suspenders dancing against the men. She was the artist, held all the power and yet she was the only one with no clothes on, rubbing against men. I don’t understand modern female empowerment.

It's not the kind of thing I'd add to my playlist, but you have to admit, it's pretty fucking funny.

They take a misogynistic sample reducing women to sex objects and say: yeah, my pussy's wet - it's so fucking wet, it's like a saucepan of macaroni, ooh, you like that? Ooh, I'm so turned on you're gonna need a mop and bucket - so you should bring one with you because I'm not cleaning this shit up...

And then the scene in the video where there are about ten women together so they've managed to fill a whole swimming pool with their wetness - fucking hilarious!

It also feels like a bit of a nod to the Cardi B joke in Booksmart, so it's a win-win, really!

Had been avoiding but have to say it's loads better than I expected

There are times when shouting racism becomes a dog whistle

How can shouting anything be a dog whistle?

Do you mean that people shouting racism are silenced (like a dog whistle - huge effort, no voice) by the fact there's so much racism that people have started to challenge now that others have stopped listening? That makes sense, I guess.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

70 years ago could a woman get up and sing about receiving oral sex? Nope. We have the power to do that now. The woman wants to sing about oral sex, and she did. If people don't like it they can choose not to listen. You need to look a little further back. Try looking at the lyrics of some music hall songs.

Look at many blues songs.

You may need to brush up on the language used but yes, lots of those women sang abut all sorts of sex, transactional and otherwise.

This is not new. Nor is it groundbreaking. It's just the same old same old, but less lyrically clever, more obvious, more overtly shocking. Excpet it misses it mark on so many levels. Posters here aren't shocked by it, more angered by the continued commodification of sex.

Curious is completely right. You also mustn't forget that they had censors though, censoring both men and women based on content.

There are plenty of examples of people singing about sex though, just not as explicitly (maybe not about oral sex, but then I might be oblivious, it had to be pointed out to me what Chain Reaction was about). But two off the top of my head:

Baby It's Cold Outside — woman making excuses to stay the night.
Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow — one night stand.