The song ‘WAP’ does not deserve the fawning plaudits? (NSFW)

[Redolent]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

WAP by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Stands for Wet Ass Pussy. That’s all what the whole song is about. Consensus seems to be that’s it a great anthem about female sexual empowerment. The New York Times: “An event record that transcends the event itself.” The Los Angeles Times: “A savage, nasty, sex-positive triumph.” For the high-brow publication Pitchfork, Cardi/Megan ‘center themselves as women in order to freely celebrate their coveted power, sex appeal, and A1 WAP.’

Sample lyrics:

“ I wanna gag, I wanna choke/I want you to touch that little dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat.”

“ “Gobble me, swallow me/Drip down inside of me/Quick jump out ’fore you let it get inside of me,”

Rest here: genius.com/Cardi-b-wap-lyrics

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To me think the crassness of the song is so boring. I’m not outraged or aghast. I just don’t think it’s sexy in the slightest (others clearly disagree). The song talks about pussies so much they may as well be rapping about a pair of shoes. But I cannot seriously accept that this is video and song are anthem of liberating empowerment, with its pole dancing, strip club visuals and sexual cliches. Listen to the song all you want but let’s pretend these are role models.

So can you merrily ignore that and say well it doesn't matter now because it was my choice to take it?

Yes - as it's my choice to do so.
I didn't have to change my name, but I did because I wanted to.
Just like people are free to keep their own name, I'm free to change mine.
Maybe in the past it was ownership, it's not now though.

I find it odd that anyone who says the song is not empowering is branded a pearl clutcher.
I love good sex. Am quite happy to ask for what I want. Am quite happy for any woman to state what she likes, however she pleases. The question raised by the OP wasn't "do you morally disapprove of women singing about sex." I just don't find this song empowering. I find it bland, cliched, and uninspiring. Possibly marginally better than a whole load of really shit songs about sex by men. Anyone who enjoys it, good for you.

The trouble with the name-changing thing on marriage is that for most women if she doesn't take her husband's name she's saddled with her father's - another man. I like my husband better than I liked my dad and it was so much easier than making a whole new name up.
I remember my mum getting letters addressed to Mrs Fred Smith (not the real name) because she wasn't even accorded the recognition of her own first name in official correspondence.

Maybe in the past it was ownership, it's not now though.

But it is still symbolic of an inherently sexist society. If it wasn't then men would routinely take the names of their wives, and they don't.

The trouble with the name-changing thing on marriage is that for most women if she doesn't take her husband's name she's saddled with her father's - another man.

Yes I totally get that. Unfortunately though unless people start doing things differently that won't ever change!

I am interested in whether women 100 years ago really and truly enjoyed the kind of sex acts that are so apparently widespread now

Are you actually interested? Because it's not difficult to find this stuff online (and in museums) if you genuinely want to find out.

that women are so so keen on, which focus mainly on pleasure for the bloke or whether women have always secretly been into choking on dicks

This statement reeks of bias - you seem to have already concluded that no woman genuinely takes pleasure from giving blowjobs, since you state these acts "focus mainly on pleasure for the bloke" - well, that bit's only true if you're correct, isn't it? Because if women genuinely do enjoy it, it's pleasurable for them too and therefore doesn't focus mainly on the man's pleasure.

You also seem to be forgetting that sex is more than just physical - it's psychological, emotional and in some cases spiritual, etc too. So just because the man's main erogenous zone involved in a blowjob is the one that erupts with semen, it doesn't mean the woman gets no sexual pleasure from the same act because her lips/brain/hands, etc don't display physical signs of climax in the same way. Your view of blowjobs appears male-centric in itself - as if the only pleasure that's relevant to a blowjob is the man's because that's what's visible.

Furthermore, since you talk about the influence of porn culture, is it not possible that your view of "who blowjobs are for" is influenced by the domination of the male gaze in modern media and porn culture?

Women's voices generally have been smothered by men's throughout modern western history. So it's logical that male voices have dominated discussions of sexual pleasure too. It's disappointing that now women are actually starting to raise their own voices, the people hearing them are telling these women that their perspectives don't accord with what men have been saying about blowjobs for years (i.e. that they are solely about men's pleasure) and that therefore these women's perspectives are invalid.

Speaking as someone who enjoys giving oral sex without a penis in sight, I believe that a great deal of sexual pleasure can be gained from going down on someone and I think it's overly simplistic and does a disservice to sexual pleasure as a pursuit to reduce oral sex to a mere transactional power play that only benefits one participant.

@JuniperFather Sorry I missed your Work It reference, I'll try to find it now!

Why are people equating 'blow jobs' with choking and gagging on a penis? They are different things are they, it's perfectly possible to give good head, and enjoy it, without being choked or gagged isn't it?

Which is why I am another one who finds it strange that suddenly women are oh so into having a dick shoved so far down their throat that they can't breathe....

LonginesPrime

I agree about the ongoing influence our cultural background has

I have found on the whole English men to be more reserved when it comes to sex than men from a Caribbean, Middle Eastern or Hispanic background I think because the attitude towards sex is different. The worshiping of a women’s body and the female form as you are. That doesn’t mean technics are better before anyone jumps on this comment.

I wasn’t as liberated in my 20’s as I am now and certainly put that down to partners I have had too

My ex (Arab) knew exactly what the clitoris was as they had been taught about the female body at school. I was shocked

Why are people equating 'blow jobs' with choking and gagging on a penis? They are different things are they, it's perfectly possible to give good head, and enjoy it, without being choked or gagged isn't it?

Which is why I am another one who finds it strange that suddenly women are oh so into having a dick shoved so far down their throat that they can't breathe...

That's why you find it strange?

Because there are other ways to get pleasure, so this way can't possibly be something some other people might enjoy?

You don't have to understand other people's perspective - your lack of understanding doesn't mean their perspective is any less valid than your own, though.

tbh I'm not sure what MN approved sex would be like, but something tells me that if my sex life was like that, I too would prefer a book and a cuppa

I think it is probably some sort of unsponatenous, sterile, romance-heavy missionary position sex and the man must jump through a thousand hoops to prove he is a feminist.

@LonginesPrime

Why are people equating 'blow jobs' with choking and gagging on a penis? They are different things are they, it's perfectly possible to give good head, and enjoy it, without being choked or gagged isn't it?

Which is why I am another one who finds it strange that suddenly women are oh so into having a dick shoved so far down their throat that they can't breathe...

That's why you find it strange?

Because there are other ways to get pleasure, so this way can't possibly be something some other people might enjoy?

You don't have to understand other people's perspective - your lack of understanding doesn't mean their perspective is any less valid than your own, though.

No, my point was about your assumption that anyone who is a bit at the idea that singing about choking and gagging is 'empowering' is a prude who finds the idea of 'blowjobs' just ghastly.

Yeah, if you don't want to be suffocated by a penis during sex, and think that it's a damaging thing for young women to potentially feel pressured into doing, then you are just a pearl clutching prude who only wants to do it in the missionary position with the lights out once a month

No, my point was about your assumption that anyone who is a bit at the idea that singing about choking and gagging is 'empowering' is a prude who finds the idea of 'blowjobs' just ghastly.

I didn't assume that anyone who questions the validity of someone else's assertion that they find choking or gagging on cock empowering or enjoyable is a prude - I assumed they are a judgemental twat with a narrow frame of reference.

Sorry if that didn't come across clearly enough.

It’s not Cardi’s job to parent and educate anyone’s daughters though. That’s mummy and daddy’s job.

You've got a problem if you think blowjobs and deep throat are the same thing.

If a woman's preference does happen to be having sex in the missionary position once a month, isn't it quite anti feminist of you to denigrate her choices? Why do you think it makes you better than her if you're getting spit roasted every night and she isn't? I thought everyone's sex life was their own business?

If a woman's preference does happen to be having sex in the missionary position once a month, isn't it quite anti feminist of you to denigrate her choices? Why do you think it makes you better than her if you're getting spit roasted every night and she isn't? I thought everyone's sex life was their own business?

Yep, the hypocrisy.

No one has said all women should like to give blow jobs or deep throat

But many do and that is fine.

Liking porn or liking certain sex acts doesn’t mean you support that women should be forced to try something they don’t want to

It’s so black and white with many on here you like it turned on by porn or accepting that some women like being involved in the making of porn you are ok with young women being forced into doing something they don’t want to or trafficked. If you like what some consider vulgar it’s because you are doing it to please men or think you should like to

There needs to be more open discussions on sex not that some sex is wrong or degrading to women more around you choose to try and do what you feel comfortable with

I agree with another poster who insinuated that some of those spending 24/7 on here desperately trying to claim this song is empowering women by calling others prudes, racists etc are men. They’re showing their hand now claiming that lots of women enjoy choking on men’s dicks and not being able to breath.

Absolute bollocks.

I’m not racist against these women - I’m mixed race.

I’m not a prude - I’ve had all kinds of good sex with all kinds of people.

However, I’m not falling for this new shit many nefarious types are promoting where we are supposed to believe prostitution which is what these women are singing about (fucking in exchange for stuff) is empowering women, that hordes of women like todays version of ‘rough sex’ which apparently means being beaten to a pulp and suffocating on a man’s cock and if you don’t think these things are ok you are a ‘prude’ or discriminating. Fuck that shit.

There are a lot of dodgy people on the media and online very keen to promote dangerous and degrading things by stamping the word ‘empowering’ on it and when you object, they start calling you playground names to try and make you think you’re being uncool. Like I said, fuck that shit.

What next? Men singing about being minor attracted with twats rushing to defend it as a legitimate sexual preference and all cool and modern and if you object you’re a discriminating prude who whips themselves with shame every time they have sex once a month with their one and only ever partner for procreation reasons only?

It's almost like the women who have fetishes think the ones who don't, shouldn't be allowed to have a voice. And call them names and take the piss if they say they don't think choking on some guys dick is empowering.

I didn't assume that anyone who questions the validity of someone else's assertion that they find choking or gagging on cock empowering or enjoyable is a prude - I assumed they are a judgemental twat with a narrow frame of reference.

Oh, you called me a 'judgemental twat', boo hoo!

I don't think glorifying the act of women being suffocated by a penis, or any sort of constricting of airways during sex, particularly to young impressionable women, is a good thing. Especially when there doesn't seem to be any equivalent the other way around, that men are not singing about how they love similar sort of stuff. If that makes me a 'judgemental twat', then I really don't give a fuck 😘

Yes of course men are posting pretending to be women because women can’t possible like something that you don’t like

I'm with you on that KingFredsTache.

If a woman's preference does happen to be having sex in the missionary position once a month, isn't it quite anti feminist of you to denigrate her choices?

I think the vast majority of people on here have been arguing that women can have whatever sex they want to.

Why do you think it makes you better than her if you're getting spit roasted every night and she isn't?

I don't think anyone has said they are "better". They maybe just think they have a better sex life than the woman who isn't. And the woman who isn't probably thinks she has a better sex life than the one who is.

Nobody that I can think of on this thread has said that being deepthroated is "better". Or having anal sex is "better".

Merely that women should be allowed to enjoy that type of sex if they want to without being:

Slut shamed
Accused of brainwashing
Accused of only doing it to please men
Responsible for other people's teenage daughters and the men who may or may not pressure them.
Oh and accused of being to blame for male killers using "rough sex" as a defence for their crimes.

If your DH isn't gasping for breath when you sit on his face, you're doing it wrong Just sayin'

I’m not a man I have a vagina, I am just not offended by other people’s sexuality or expression of their sexuality or preferences. I don’t like certain sex acts, that’s just my choice I have no opinion on what other people like except for ‘good for you’