The song ‘WAP’ does not deserve the fawning plaudits? (NSFW)

[Redolent]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

WAP by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Stands for Wet Ass Pussy. That’s all what the whole song is about. Consensus seems to be that’s it a great anthem about female sexual empowerment. The New York Times: “An event record that transcends the event itself.” The Los Angeles Times: “A savage, nasty, sex-positive triumph.” For the high-brow publication Pitchfork, Cardi/Megan ‘center themselves as women in order to freely celebrate their coveted power, sex appeal, and A1 WAP.’

Sample lyrics:

“ I wanna gag, I wanna choke/I want you to touch that little dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat.”

“ “Gobble me, swallow me/Drip down inside of me/Quick jump out ’fore you let it get inside of me,”

Rest here: genius.com/Cardi-b-wap-lyrics

——

To me think the crassness of the song is so boring. I’m not outraged or aghast. I just don’t think it’s sexy in the slightest (others clearly disagree). The song talks about pussies so much they may as well be rapping about a pair of shoes. But I cannot seriously accept that this is video and song are anthem of liberating empowerment, with its pole dancing, strip club visuals and sexual cliches. Listen to the song all you want but let’s pretend these are role models.

No, you don’t have to find everything empowering and that’s the point. I might not find other art inspiring at all. You don’t, so that’s fine, someone else might. You have the freedom to pick and choose

What is not ok is to come here and tell all the other women they should be ashamed of themselves if they DO find it inspiring and that they are uneducated, slutty, sexually controlled by men, have no mind of their own and that everyone else is looking down on them revolted.

You aren’t educating me by telling me what I like or how to think, you are just telling me your views are better than mine.

Still 81% agree with OP.

What is not ok is to come here and tell all the other women they should be ashamed of themselves if they DO find it inspiring and that they are uneducated, slutty, sexually controlled by men, have no mind of their own and that everyone else is looking down on them revolted

Exactly

81% may agree with the op

We are all well aware of the overwhelming demographic on MN

We don’t ALL have to embrace it as empowering, as so many enlightened media outlets have been insisting. The whole premise of this thread, for me anyway:

That's fine but at the same time, other women don't have to subscribe to the idea that everything has to be "empowering" for women. That is a very white, western, middle class, feminist idea - that women can only be of value if they are empowered (the idea that power is the most important value to have any worth).

And when was the last time you heard Dewayne Johnson (who let's not forget is always the 'hero' of any film he is in by the way) waxing lyrical about how 'empowered' taking his clothes off makes him feel? Peter Andre? Channing Tatum?

They're men - they're not under the same pressure to justify their every move and plead their case as to why they shouldn't be vilified.

@tyrinn

Correction: "Mumsnet" expectations of women. The song / video is actually very popular outside of this little parallel universe filled with clutching pearls.

You mean pearl clutchers.

Lots of weird mansplaining by penis holders and woke porn-promotors with self-proclaimed superior intellects on this thread. At least get your idioms right, whilst displaying your higher intellects.

What is a penis holder ?

Choking doesn't mean deep throating it means literally choking a woman to the point she passes out.

Penis holders

Fuxache

Also known as breathplay, which as a word sounds quite nice until you find out what it is.

I wonder if there have always been loads of women who not just like it rough, but also enjoy breathplay, face fucking, double penetration, spit roasting etc because women are so much less prudish and enlightened than they used to be. You don't hear much about this stuff happening in the 1920s, or the 1870s for eg. How recent is it? Or is it because young women are being conditioned into thinking that sex needs to include extreme fetish stuff because that's what they think men want via social media and the prevalence of violence against women on porn sites and yeah, in songs like these where ultimately sex is a transaction. If you don't want to get involved in those sex acts you're a prude.

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

Choking doesn't mean deep throating it means literally choking a woman to the point she passes out.

"I don't wanna spit, I wanna gulp I wanna gag, I wanna choke I want you to touch that lil' dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat My head game is fire"

Choking in this context means deepthroating. Seems like many on here are claiming faux outrage without even listening to the song.

Hate the song. Hate the genre. Hate the sex acts discussed here. All totally fine, since we're just advocating for choice. But don't hate other women for liking things you don't, whether or not she happens to like things that men also like.

We don’t ALL have to embrace it as empowering, as so many enlightened media outlets have been insisting

Have they though?

Is it not more likely that the authors of the commentary you've seen see it as empowering themselves (or their bosses do) and are merely writing to persuade?

You make it sound like they're the thought police!

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam you're totally missing the point. No one is saying 'if you don't get involved in those sex acts you're a prude'. Absolutely not.

Similarly you should not be saying 'if you do get involved in those sex acts you're either a slut, or you've been conditioned into thinking you like things by men (but you're too stupid to realise it)'.

Lucky for us all, people like different things. Celebrate it. The world would be a pretty boring place otherwise.

I don’t think anyone is going to argue that porn and more so the 24 hour access can have a detrimental impact on young people it needs to be regulated

But as for what women and men like this comes with experience and if they want to act out something they have read, viewed or been introduced and they enjoy what some view are dirty or degrading what’s the problem

My nanny’s generation couldn’t even admit openly they enjoyed sex. Religion (especially Christianity) has had such an influence that women are seen as being good or whores

Plus women have been liberated as they can be in control of contraception or the choice of a safe termination should they not want to continue with pregnancy.

[quote easterflowerss]@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam you're totally missing the point. No one is saying 'if you don't get involved in those sex acts you're a prude'. Absolutely not.

Similarly you should not be saying 'if you do get involved in those sex acts you're either a slut, or you've been conditioned into thinking you like things by men (but you're too stupid to realise it)'.

Lucky for us all, people like different things. Celebrate it. The world would be a pretty boring place otherwise. [/quote]
Except many have, or a few have said it many times... prude, pearl clutching etc etc.

I couldn't care less what sex acts anyone likes, as long as they are fully consensual. Btut it is interesting that when a poster, like me, says, "But they are saying the exchange sex for things, that's really not empowerment"

a) nobody who likes the song comes back and discusses that - the commodification of sex, the sex fgor sale angle. They just focus on the kinds of sex and some comparisons with other women or men on nakedness or somesuch.

b) some try and make it a race thing. Which had nothing to do with what the OP asked and is just one of those tangents such threads regulalry hare off on

I just don't think that yet another glossy video and catchy/repetitive tune about how women can exchange sex of all sorts of things is necessarily the message women and girls need to be getting all excited about.

Then again, with all the bad sex, pornification of sex*, that seems so prevalent these days, maybe this step back is just another turn on the wheel! It's day has come... and will go again soon enough!

*Yeah, I know. That just shows I really am a prude! Pshaw!

You don't hear much about this stuff happening in the 1920s, or the 1870s for eg. How recent is it?

I posted about this up thread it was ignored
In 1870 women were tied to beds and masturbated by men to cure ‘hysteria’. Female Genitals were all linked to women’s mental state.

It is only in very recent years that female genitals and pleasure has even been researched properly. Dildos were not even invented for female pleasure.

Prior to 1970’s women who liked sex were mostly seen as prostitutes, and babies removed from women and adopted off if they were not married.

In other cultures women were celebrated and sexuality was not seen as such a sin. But in western culture it still often is - the USA is still a very God Fearing nation. Gay marriage is a new concept and in some states/counties abortion is illegal

This is why it’s so shocking. Because there is so much distaste and disrespect linked to women being sexual beings in their own right. People who are arguing that it doesn’t have to be your cup of tea, but don’t piss in everyone else’s. Liberation of women comes in many different forms, and other women don’t get to police what is or isn’t acceptable

I wonder if there have always been loads of women who not just like it rough, but also enjoy breathplay, face fucking, double penetration, spit roasting etc because women are so much less prudish and enlightened than they used to be. You don't hear much about this stuff happening in the 1920s, or the 1870s for eg. How recent is it?

Not recent at all!

When you say you don't hear much about 1870s rough/kinky sex, where have you actually been looking?

There's heaps of evidence of this stuff throughout history and it definitely predates the internet!

Choking in this context means deepthroating. Seems like many on here are claiming faux outrage without even listening to the song.

I've listened to it and I've read the lyrics. I was responding to someone who seemed to think choking generally was linked to blowjobs.

I am not outraged by the song at all. Not everyone who disagrees with you on Mumsnet is displaying faux outrage. Sometimes we are just sharing our opinions in a perfectly calm way. On the contrary there's a lot of outrage against people who don't think this kind of music or video is empowering, which i don't particularly. It's still portraying sex as a commodity and i don't think that sex work is empowering either.

Ok enlighten me. Show me an account written by a woman before the last 100 years where she reports that she actively enjoys a good rough deepthroat/facefuck, dp and being choked.

tbh I'm not sure what MN approved sex would be like, but something tells me that if my sex life was like that, I too would prefer a book and a cuppa

@Iaintnosnackiamafeast

tbh I'm not sure what MN approved sex would be like, but something tells me that if my sex life was like that, I too would prefer a book and a cuppa

yep!

@spandexonmars

To those who disapprove of the song, what to you defines female sexual empowerment?

this is a really good question I think, it's a shame it's gone unanswered.

tbh I'm not sure what MN approved sex would be like, but something tells me that if my sex life was like that, I too would prefer a book and a cuppa

Wow you're so edgy and interesting.

I haven't RTFT but my annoyance with the furore around this song is that this is not some ground breaking exploration of female sexuality. Christina Aguilera and Lil Kim were doing similar things back in 2004.

I'm not a prude, I just find it dull TBH. Don't feel the need to talk about my sex life.