to be peeved that my kids refuse to be tested for Covid!

[sadpapercourtesan]

We've been asked to be part of the testing programme as a family - we'd be tested every week for 5 weeks, then every month for 12 months. DH and I want to do it, particularly the antibody test as we'd like to know whether we've got immunity. Our boys (16 and nearly 18) refuse; DS1 doesn't fancy the nose swab and DS2 says he'd rather not know! So that's that

Obviously it's their choice to make, but I'm peeved that DH and I won't get to participate now, as it has to be the whole family. Grrr.

They don't want to have tests done on their body for research. So what? That doesn't mean they're 'selfish little shits' or cowards. Some women are asked to let in medical students to watch procedures being done on them or even to volunteer to have procedures performed on them and say no, does that mean they are 'selfish little shits' and 'cowards' for wanting privacy and not wanting to participate? A person's body doesn't belong to some 'greater good' and isn't there to be used to help out if he/she doesn't want to. There should never be shame or guilt attached to that or we go back to the bad ol' days of assuming people are lab rats if someone decides it's all for a good cause.

How odd and judgemental.

I saw on a TV programme that those who are doing the tests at home on their own with zero help from a medical professional are likely to get a false reading due to not insering the swaps as far up the nose and down the throat as they should be. For those who have had or are doing the tests are you doing them yourself?
Those that have received the test and experienced pain and gagging have had the test done the right way and/or have extreme sensitivity to the test I have a friend that gags when they see others gagging they're that bad.
Also agree with those saying No means No and to bribe them into saying yes is wrong and if you put that sentence to anything else to do with their own body you'll realise how bad it really sounds.

YANBU, seriously. They are refusing a moment's discomfort for your peace of mind and that of other vulnerable people they come into contact with. Are your boys planning on working or going to school in the next few weeks? They could save lives of their co-workers or teachers, anyone older or in a risk category, not just you, if they get detected and isolated quickly if they happen to contract it; and by participating in the study, contribute to a better understanding of how it affects different groups. Surely we ALL want to get back to a safe way of life? We need to find out as much as we can to defeat or control it, whether it's by social distancing, wearing a mask and hand washing, or participating physically in tests and studies. Can't believe the responses of some on here who think individual convenience somehow outweighs public responsibility.

Can't believe the responses of some on here who think individual convenience somehow outweighs public responsibility.

And I can't believe the responses of some on here who think we should be forced to to have procedures against our will. That's a very dangerous road but some people seem happy to take it.

And we're back to the competitive stupidity again, this time competing actual legal responsibilities and entirely noninvasive practices like handwashing to things that are nothing of the sort.

Those boys may in the future tell their sons 'Corvid19 I helped find a cure for that'

I can't believe how many people are willing to rook their children. It isn't anything to crow about, and personally I think they're raven mad. Though as the OP's sons aren't willing to be tested I hope that they're still on the alert for a persistent chough.

@PiataMaiNei

And we're back to the competitive stupidity again, this time competing actual legal responsibilities and entirely noninvasive practices like handwashing to things that are nothing of the sort.

This! And the idea that subjecting yourself to research studies you don't want to be a part of makes you a hero. How dare you go to school or work without making your body available to invasive tests and research studies.

Go on, walk the walk! Sign yourself up to be a living donor - your kidney or part of your liver, to save lives. It's your moral duty! Hope you're all regular blood or plasma donors, it's your moral duty.

Even notice how such statements are always couched in the nebulous collective, 'we'?

@AllPlayedOut

😂😂😂 @ AllPlayedOut.

Donating part of your bone marrow or liver or kidney do not equate to being a blood donor or having a nose swab. It is unhelpful fear-mongering to claim that a nose swab is invasive or some kind of physical violation. In these circumstances there is collective responsibility - in this case for the health of others around them, if not for themselves.

@Chocolatefreak

Donating part of your bone marrow or liver or kidney do not equate to being a blood donor or having a nose swab. It is unhelpful fear-mongering to claim that a nose swab is invasive or some kind of physical violation. In these circumstances there is collective responsibility - in this case for the health of others around them, if not for themselves.

Similarly, having nose and throats swabs don't equate to washing your hands.

It's VERY unhelpful and wrong to purport that having any test or procedure you do not want is anything other than a violation of your body and your boundaries, ever. Your body does not belong to any collective at all, or anyone but you. This is thankfully recognised in law as well.

@Chocolatefreak

Donating part of your bone marrow or liver or kidney do not equate to being a blood donor or having a nose swab. It is unhelpful fear-mongering to claim that a nose swab is invasive or some kind of physical violation. In these circumstances there is collective responsibility - in this case for the health of others around them, if not for themselves.

So what you're now saying is that in fact it isn't helpful or valid to lump nasal swabs alongside procedures that are a very different level of invasiveness? Like, say, handwashing....

@Chocolatefreak

Donating part of your bone marrow or liver or kidney do not equate to being a blood donor or having a nose swab. It is unhelpful fear-mongering to claim that a nose swab is invasive or some kind of physical violation. In these circumstances there is collective responsibility - in this case for the health of others around them, if not for themselves.

We are still allowed to say no to any procedure despite what you might think! I will have a swab if I show symptoms of Covid, I will not have regular swabs because of 'collective responsibility' as I really think having something stuck up my nose and down my throat is invasive.

When it comes to my body I will make the choices I am happy with.

It is unhelpful fear-mongering to claim that a nose swab is invasive or some kind of physical violation

It is if you do not want to have nose and throat swabs. That is not 'fear-mongering' or unhelpful, that's a fact. No one can force you and coercing, bullying, manipulating or getting someone to do something by deceptive means (such as telling them it's compulsory when it's not) is in some cases an actual crime, for every good reason (coercive behaviour is recognised as a form of domestic violence, for example, which is a crime). Because people's bodily autonomy is recognised in law and sacrosanct.

It really doesn't matter if it's to donate a kidney, donate blood, take a swab, take a breath test, or answer a questionnaire.
If it's for research, the person has the full right to say no without pressure or judgement. That is why informed consent is necessary.

Yes, what on earth is it with some of the posters on this thread who imagine themselves the ultimate arbiter of how a person should experience a physical procedure? It's an inherently ludicrous idea. And so arrogant.

@Lweji

It really doesn't matter if it's to donate a kidney, donate blood, take a swab, take a breath test, or answer a questionnaire. If it's for research, the person has the full right to say no without pressure or judgement. That is why informed consent is necessary.

True, and even when it's not for research, you can still decline. You may face consequences of that, as in the case of someone driving whilst under the influence of an intoxicant, but you can decline. Because consent is recognised in law and also that one's body is not a collective.

@PiataMaiNei

Yes, what on earth is it with some of the posters on this thread who imagine themselves the ultimate arbiter of how a person should experience a physical procedure? It's an inherently ludicrous idea. And so arrogant.

It's very pervasive, this type of hard of thinking. Covid's made it a pandemic on here. But it usually rears its head when it comes to smear tests, mamograms, blood tests, MRIs, childbirth, hysteroscopes with no anaesthetic, etc. 'Oh, it's no bother at all, you're so fussy.' It's a form of denigrating others to asset moral superiority and tiresome in the extreme in addition to erroneous.

InDeoEstMeaFiducia
Indeed.

Although the point is that the person shouldn't suffer any consequences either, unlike not allowing a breath test if suspected of drink driving.

It would be interesting InDeo to know how much of the behaviour you correctly describe is from people who do understand that humans experience things differently but are just virtue signalling, and those who are actually daft enough to believe their feelings can be extrapolated to the entire species.

Up to them really, pushing for an answer that would please you..is teaching them dodgy stuff about consent really IMO. I think this in regards to grandma forcing kisses and such too mind, so I might be OTT on the topic.

The test was horrible for me, really horrible. However, am emetophobic and it made me gag so obviously it was going to be awful for me. The nose bit quite hurt too..I think that maybe those saying the nose bit does not hurt..are not putting it in far enough? The nurse who did mine said as much, that some are saying its a doddle, but those people are not actually doing it right. Of course, its possible they are doing it right, and just..are not in pain/uncomfortable for whatever reason. I swear it felt like it was about to come out of my eyeball..

@BatShite I had a test on Thursday and the nose bit didn't hurt, more tickle and make my eyes water. I didn't do it myself, it was done by a member of staff at the test centre so I'm confident it was done properly. I think everyone feels things differently and I was lucky!

Oh for sure, some will find it easy when it was done right too. Just seems odd the amount who seem to think its just like..touching the nostril or something..I bloody wish!

I know! I wouldn't call it pleasant but it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, then again my Mum used to say no sense no feeling so maybe she was right! When the woman did the throat swab she told me to say aaahhh but I only managed some strange gurgling noises as I was desperately trying not to gag!