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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Comments about DD’s hair texture

323 replies

AbsolutelyPositively · 11/08/2020 22:39

Inspired to ask after following another thread. I’ll start by giving context:

I’m mixed race. My mother is black Caribbean and my father was white British. I very much have Afro hair, it’s just like my mother’s. My husband is white British. We have two DC, and genetics are a strange thing indeed. DS has strawberry blonde hair that is curly and very fine. DD has rich dark brown hair that is long, curly and is much thicker than DS’s hair. Neither of them have Afro hair, however.

Since finding out I was pregnant, MIL regularly asked DH what he would do if ‘they came out with Afro hair?’. He would typically shrug this off as ignorant and tell her that it wouldn’t bother him either way. After they were born, MIL would sometimes assess their hair and in a panicked tone say ‘I think it’s gonna turn Afro’. Again, we told her that wouldn’t be a problem for us, so not to worry.

Fast forward to three days ago. PIL were visiting. I was getting DC ready to go for a walk. I brushed DS’s hair (we haven’t had it cut yet because he likes to be able to have it brushed alongside his sister). Then I brushed DD’s hair. That’s a bit more of a task because it’s thicker, it can get a bit tangled, she struggles and pulls away. MIL is sitting next to me while I’m doing this, watching the struggle, and says to me ‘So does she have the Afro hair then?’. In exactly those words.

I wasn’t rude or anything. I said no, I explained that her hair texture is nothing like mine or my mother’s. She said ‘Oh, that’s good, that’s alright then’.

It really irked me. It made me feel a lot more annoyed than I’d felt before about all of this. Later, when I was talking to my DM I told her about this and DM was very upset. She said that she’s worried about DC growing up around a family that is so ignorant, and she believes they are racist. She mentioned that she thought they were racist before and hadn’t told me so as not to upset me.

I’m very interested to know what other people think. What are people’s thoughts? Am I BU for feeling annoyed at this?

OP posts:
AbsolutelyPositively · 14/08/2020 09:57

@purplepansyem yes indeed, beautifully curly. On good days her hair creates its own beautiful natural spirals that I would struggle to create with a curling iron! In this heat it's become a lot 'fluffier' and less tamed. I've had a look at a lot of the advice here so far and it's been brilliant.

OP posts:
Ardsallagh · 14/08/2020 09:59

Some comments on here seem to suggest that that black women with Afro hair who choose to have their hair treated are somehow to be viewed as conforming to ill founded expectations?

Yes, that's a pretty mainstream view -- that relaxing your Afro hair or wearing a weave/wig is conforming to white/Eurocentric grooming norms (and of course chemical treatments can cause scalp burns, hair loss, so not just aesthetic considerations etc), whereas wearing your hair naturally is combating the negative cultural and social associations of 'natural' black hair in societies where the media still portray light-skinned or white women with straight or silky hair as the beauty ideal. Remember the debates on Michelle Obama's hair in her early days in the White House?

I don't think that a white woman dyeing her hair has quite the same set of larger cultural implications.

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2020 10:06

Yanbu.

Who gives a fuck what texture hair is?

What relevance is that on the type of person they are? On how they treat others? Etc

In fact - what relevance does it have at all in the important qualities of someone?

MMN123 · 14/08/2020 10:15

@TrishTeres

I know a mixed race couple who are excitedly expecting their new baby. They have chosen to not know the boy or girl until they are born. they have girls so far and have told me as a friend that they hope it's a boy because it takes so long to untangle the girls hair. Boys just have it cut short. I think that is just a fact and a real issue for parents. Of course I think your MIL comments are not courteous but avoid casting her as a racist. But please take the higher ground. Flood her with kindness and love and laugh off her comments as a shortfall on her part. Focus on all the good things that demonstrate she loves you all and thank her more. Call it "charm offensive".
Laugh it off? Launch a charm offensive? Are you serious?!

Why would you minimise her racism by laughing it off and reward her by being even nicer? What do you think the children would learn from mummy and daddy laughing at granny making offensive remarks about them?!

I’m afraid your advice bewilders me. Op needs to protect her children from psychological harm caused by their grandmothers ignorant casual racism - not jolly her along like she’s some incapacitated dementia victim who’s lost the ability to be polite and speak appropriately.

TrishTeres · 14/08/2020 10:16

@AbsolutelyPositively and @Ardsallagh. Thank you for your very worthwhile perspectives. Of course any discrimination is deeply reprehensible. I think the pressure to be beautiful is a very strong one. Women of all colours and ethnic heritages experience it and to a much greater degree than men. But it is deeply ingrained in humans and indeed animals. Some people may be fortunate to be objectively stunning whatever their hair colour or style. I am certainly not one of them. I am not regarded as denying my heritage by adding "powder n paint" to be a little "what I ain't". Certainly I believe grooming and appearance counts hugely in terms of anyone's standing in the workplace. One silver lining of lockdown is that it has provided me with a welcome opportunity to experiment a little on my appearance choices without having to go in to work. Surely it is itself discriminatory to suggest that black women/girls should not experience the same freedom to choose what they believe flatters to them most? Have a great day.

Lelophants · 14/08/2020 10:17

Id feel like saying "no it's not an afro, that's a shame" or "hopefully it'll become afro" and see bow she responds!

Ardsallagh · 14/08/2020 10:24

Certainly I believe grooming and appearance counts hugely in terms of anyone's standing in the workplace.

Yes, but these aren't the same for everyone -- there are still ingrained workplace prejudices against natural Afro hair looking 'unprofessional', for instance.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-36279845
metro.co.uk/2019/08/05/billboard-campaign-challenges-workplace-bias-afro-hair-10518923/
www.byrdie.com/natural-hair-in-corporate-america

Packingsoapandwater · 14/08/2020 10:44

[quote AbsolutelyPositively]@purplepansyem yes indeed, beautifully curly. On good days her hair creates its own beautiful natural spirals that I would struggle to create with a curling iron! In this heat it's become a lot 'fluffier' and less tamed. I've had a look at a lot of the advice here so far and it's been brilliant. [/quote]
This sounds like my dd. Her hair falls naturally into ringlets and has that wonderful body, bounce and lift from her scalp that I would die for.

My hair is 1a and she gets it from her father's side, who go from 3b to 4a (Mediterranean/Arab heritage).

Weirdly, it is my DH's family who encourage me to keep it short, probably because they know what it is like to deal with longer curly hair, but my Eurasian family think it is so beautiful that have effectively banned me from cutting it, which is alright for them as they aren't the ones having to wash it or have it brushed. Hmm

I am not going to make any comment about racism because I think it's a very heavy charge theses days and should be subject to significant and consistent evidence, but what I will say is that grandparents can be really weird about random shit: ears, wearing glasses, hair, weight, clothing, food choices ...

And you've got to figure out what the best course of action is in response. If you are going to approach her comments as racism, then how will that affect your family dynamics, your marriage, your daughter's sense of self both now and in the future?

Calling people out is very fashionable these days, but, within families, it can lead to a whole heap of shit that lasts for decades and can cause a horrendous number of stomach-churning situations that shoot your nerves to pieces.

TrishTeres · 14/08/2020 10:52

@Packingsoapandwater
I so agree.

MIL will always be MIL and grandma to the children. I think AbsolutelyPositively you have behaved with wonderful dignity and restraint with regards to her ill judged comments. Your actions speak loudly for your confidence, kindness and concern for good relations. A rift in the family is a sadness much to be avoided if at all possible.

TrishTeres · 14/08/2020 10:55

@Ardsallagh

Interesting articles. Thank you.

iguanadonna · 14/08/2020 11:00

It's racist, and it's also plain rude because MiL is saying she hopes DD won't have hair like yours. Which would be unacceptably insulting even without the gobsmacking racism. Your DH needs to tell his mother he thinks you and your hair are wonderful and he won't be putting up with any more comments demeaning either.

TrishTeres · 14/08/2020 11:02

@Ardsallagh

www.aarp.org/disrupt-aging/stories/ideas/info-2018/job-search-grey-hair.html

How much all women have to consider our hair! Confused

bemusedmoose · 14/08/2020 11:22

wow - she is rude! What the hell is wrong with afro hair!?!? FFS. Ok so I know from friends with afro hair it can be tricky sometimes but all hair types have their own issues - mine is straight but the minute there is a spec of humidity i look like ive been electrocuted.

Honestly it sounds like she has a major issues and in no way would i want her saying those things around my kids! I would have to ask her what exactly is her problem. It does sound as if there is a race issue but it could just be that she doesnt like the hair (like i have a passion for that natural deep red straight hair, i assume others must have hair they dislike). Either way i would have to find out and make it clear her comments werent welcome and never to be mentioned infront of the kids. She can have an opinion - doesnt mean she has to make everyone aware of it! I would actually be so tempted to pull her leg and when the kids are off playing casually boast 'oh dd is finally getting her afro hair coming through - im so happy!!' (i know it doesnt just appear but clearly your MIL doesnt) and then watch her face hit the floor. But then I do like to give back what others dish out.

My friend has white skin, blue eyes and blonde afro hair - her grandmother is mixed race so the genes go back a long way. Genetics are crazy things. She loves her hair though admits it can be a handful and wouldnt change it for the world. I wish black women werent made to feel like they should have european hair - i love natural afro hair.

EverdeRose · 14/08/2020 11:22

I was originally going to ask if it was less to do with racism or a dislike of afro hair and more to do with her wanting to be able to style your DDs hair and feeling like she wouldn't know where to start if it was afro.

However, after reading the rest of your posts I think you need to confront her about her language and ask her what's wrong with afro hair and 'rich' food.

bemusedmoose · 14/08/2020 11:37

@TrishTeres

I know a mixed race couple who are excitedly expecting their new baby. They have chosen to not know the boy or girl until they are born. they have girls so far and have told me as a friend that they hope it's a boy because it takes so long to untangle the girls hair. Boys just have it cut short. I think that is just a fact and a real issue for parents. Of course I think your MIL comments are not courteous but avoid casting her as a racist. But please take the higher ground. Flood her with kindness and love and laugh off her comments as a shortfall on her part. Focus on all the good things that demonstrate she loves you all and thank her more. Call it "charm offensive".

Umm - no! Dont butter up someone who is insulting you - they know they are hurting you by saying those things and how does just swallowing their bitter pill make you a better person?

I'm not advising family war but by just taking it you are teaching your kids to put up with it and that's not ok. Yes the OP has handled this with dignity which i applaud but the foot needs to go down and nip this in the bud. It's just not ok.

I've been bullied and abused because i was always told to just put up with it. Be kind. Be the better person, Rise above it. And where did that get me - no where! It made me ill with stress and people ganging up on me telling me to put up and shut up. Had i put my foot down and nipped it in the bud a would have had stopped the bullying and avoid the domestic abuse. No way should a parent or child have to put up with those sort of comments - MIL is essential telling the kids she hopes they only display white traits. So wrong on so many levels and no way is that to be treated with open arms and love. FOOT DOWN, HEAD UP. is the way to go. Screw putting MIL nose out of place - this could seriously influence the poor kids views.

purplepansyem · 14/08/2020 11:58

I belong to a UK Facebook group that has loads of advice on how to care for all types of curly hair. You can learn how to test for protein vs moisture, which hair needs a leave in conditioner, how to deal with frizz, how to care for children's hair etc. Here's the link if you're interested: www.facebook.com/groups/869238123251544/

ILoveIkea · 14/08/2020 12:38

And the posters advising you to bypass and ignore the racism I wonder how many are black parents who have experienced racism in it many forms. Sometimes subtle sometimes glaringly obvious, sometimes including your hair?

TrishTeres · 14/08/2020 14:20

@'IloveIkea

Is misplaced concern about particular hair always "racism"? What about those who suffer discrimination because they have other colour hair. People with grey or auburn/"ginger" hair might particularly empathise. Isn't it possible MIL just being ill judged in her comments on what is beautiful hair? AbsolutelyPositive gives no indication of other comments or occasions indicating racism. Innocent until proven guilty is the best course to follow surely.

Also AbsolutelyPositive did not ask for responses limited to particular racial heritage therefore in the spirit of Martin Luther King I anticipate she considers their content independently of any consideration of the colour skin or the contributor.

shinyredbus · 14/08/2020 14:50

Why didn’t you say something to your MIl there and then? She’s asked and asked and because you haven’t really told her that’s not an ok question to ask - she’s carried on.

Monstermunch67 · 14/08/2020 15:26

It's racist, pure and simple. She's also made a point of raising her 'issue' multiple times, so I'd say she's clearly trying to belittle you. Call her on it loud and clear because if it carries on until your DD is old enough to understand where your MIL's comments are coming from, you'll have to explain how nanny is a racist and why that BS was allowed to continue in your home. Too many older folks try the 'well in our day things were different' excuse for that sort of bigotry. Don't let anyone tell you she doesn't really understand what she's saying, or that you're being sensitive. It's disgusting.

TrishTeres · 14/08/2020 15:45

Isn't it ok to talk honestly about how best to manage hair that might be "high maintenance"? Would there be a problem if she just referred to curly hair rather than Afro hair?

I agree though more polite for her to refrain from what might be a sensitive topic for those with curly or Afro hair.

ILoveIkea · 14/08/2020 15:51

@TrishTeres
Her own mother confirmed her own feelings that the MIL was racist. I don't mind curiosity, if it's genuine, but a line of questioning and tone would be a pretty good indicator of where it's going. The OP has felt unease and with good reason. While I've come out of recent events minus blinkers and heartbreakingly realising issues and negative attitudes were worse than I thought racism is still my last thought in negative interactions with people. However, it is what it is and it has to be called when it's there.

TrishTeres · 14/08/2020 16:21

"She mentioned she thought they were racist before" - she does not give any particular mention of any incident that caused her to think so. We would need to know a lot more before giving a guilty verdict there.MIL obviously visits the home and visits her DIL who is mixed heritage. Anyone is someone "racist" irredeemable? Is it not possible that someone might have certain mistaken prejudices and that kindness and great experiences might ofetn be by far the best means to correct any misapprehensions? She certainly otherwise sounds like she wants to keep up a very relationship with her DIL and Grandchildren. Perhaps she is really just oerly-concerned about high maintenance hair and does not know her concerns could be taken in a hurtful manner she does not intend.

ILoveIkea · 14/08/2020 16:50

So you don't think ' unintentional racism' should be called out? If it was misguided then surely pointing out and highlighting effects of such behaviour and commentary would benefit her...I haven't said go no NC/LC what I've suggested upthread is buying her a book I've recommended to help get her there. I've also said upthread that once the conversation has been had to watch the MIL around the kids which is an opinion I would've given had she talked about anything negative around them e.g weight, looks etc.
But I still don't buy the 'maintenance concern' argument.

Bananabread8 · 14/08/2020 16:56

@TrishTeres I think you have missed the point. OPs MIL said “what will you do if they have Afro hair”. For a start there’s nothing you can do you are born that way! Secondly why is she saying it in a negative light?

Why is MIL so concerned is Afro hair less superior than other types of hair? Someone is not disadvantaged by any means because they have thick hair FGS!!

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