Should I ask to speak to child services behind my partner's back?

[Worriedandconcerned34]

Hi,
Posting here for traffic and also because I am hoping for some genuine advice. This could well turn out to be an essay, so please forgive me.

I have strong suspicions that my partner's children (who live with his ex-wife) are being abused emotionally by their mother's partner. I don't believe they are being harmed physically but I don't know how long this will remain the case. We see these children 50% of the time, so on a regular basis throughout the week.

My partner knows about it and we have contacted child services numerous times in the past year. There is a case-worker assigned but we haven't heard from them since June and it appears as though they have closed the case. I worry that they have closed the case as the children are fed, clean, clothed - they are not being neglected. My partner is now reluctant to rock the boat any further as one of the children involved is not biologically his but he has always classed them as his own. But he has been threatened by the ex-wife that he will not get to see this child if he continues to (in her words) "try and ruin her life". So he is seemingly content to let things play out.

The signs of emotional abuse that we have been made aware of:
Ex-wife's partner has called the children names like "Dick". He has called the children fat and told them they are "mental". He has insisted they call him Daddy. He has threatened to abduct one of the children. He has been arrested for common assault against one of the children but the charges were dropped. He has taken videos on his phone of the children crying and he appears to be all nice on camera asking them why they are so upset and afraid of him. He has pinned their mum up against the wall. There have been at least 3 occasions the police have been called in the last 4 months by neighbours due to the shouting and this man has damaged the property and kicked holes in the doors. He has broken/barged his way into the house and shouted at the children whilst they were on factime with their friends and apparently their friends were all crying watching what was going on. This has all happened whilst the children have been at the property. There are two children involved here, one is my partner's daughter and is 9 years old. The other girl (not my partner's) is 13. The older child has been posting alarming social media videos saying she wants to die and has been self-harming. When approached about this the ex-wife says that the children are making a big fuss over nothing. I appreciate that a lot of what the children say (which I haven't posted here) sounds like normal children rebelling against authority - things like not wanting to go out and exercise, not wanting to play a game with each other, fighting and bickering but I am tearing my hair out trying to think of what else I can do to help these kids. If my partner is not willing to try again, what can I do? Should I contact the social worker again?

I should add that the ex-wife has promised over and over again to my partner that this man is gone for good. But then she takes him back again within two weeks. This has happened on three occasions throughout lockdown. Nothing changes.

I am a little bit lost as I tried so hard to get this man removed from the children's house but I am only a partner to their father. I have no say in what happens. Should I get involved again? I know that if I ask my partner if he wants to take anything further then he will say no, based on what kicked off last time. But these children are being systematically abused and failed by everyone in their lives, or so it seems to me. I don't think I can just sit back and watch. I have told my partner every time that I have spoken to the case worker or NSPCC, or whoever else I have tried to get some help from. But this time I know he won't want me to disturb the semi-peace that is happening now.

What should I do, Mumsnet? :(

I don't agree with ignoring it. Tbh I'm shocked that your partner is happy to just let it play out.. that would ring alarm bells with me for a future with that person if he's not trying his upmost to protect his children.

You can report anonymously. You and the grandmother seem the only ones able to look out for these kids... I'd definitely keep an eye on it.. good luck x

The school probably can't talk to you, but you can talk to them. They might only be able to give you responses such as "I am listening" or "I am writing this down". that doesn't mean they don't care, it just means that that is legally all they are allowed to say. Keep reporting every new disclosure or thing you see and hear.
This also applies to speaking to another adult's GP if you think they are at risk or abuse. The GP can tell you absolutely nothing. However, they can be listening very carefully indeed.

Something definitely needs to be done. However, it’s incredibly sad that the kids and their mother have found themselves in this situation and I’m wondering what your partners contribution to their predicament is? Why their relationship broke down? I’m guessing he’s not entirely innocent in all this himself. She has clearly chosen to be with an abusive man, her self-esteem must be on the floor!

I couldn't stay with a man who wasn't actively advocating to get his children to a safe place.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm gobdmacked at the stupidity/naivety of posters who say that "as have concluded an investigation and nothing is wrong, so nothing can be wrong." In the course of my professional like, I have referred countless obviously neglected/abused children to social services, to be told there is "no child protection need."

Quite frankly social services are as useful as a chocolate teapot, and I would advise anybody to pay as much attention to there assurances that they've "investigated and nothings going on" as you would to the hamster. Probably get more sense out of the hamster tbf .

It's also worth advising that every time a child has been murdered by parents/family in the UK, the child had been known to as , and normally under a "protection plan."

When the children are at yours let them know that they are welcome at yours whenever they want, they don’t have to follow the timetable and they can turn up anytime. Give them your number and say the same thing. They can call you text you anytime. Could your DP have a safe “word” that his kids text him if the they need to get them from mums. Just ideas. I can’t believe anyone would say reporting child protection is snitching.

@PeacefulPlease I think my partner is guilty of not having a backbone in all of this.
Their relationship was tumultuous by all accounts. I might be outing myself if I say too much, but I believe DP was at fault for allowing things to happen and he should have ended the marriage long before she ended it for him. Ex-wife had at least three affairs that he knew of. One affair she abandoned both children and left them with DP and went to live in Spain for two years with some guy she met online. DP took her back. She also accused DP of various things that were proven to be falsehoods. This abusive man had been in a previous relationship with a mutual facebook friend of DP's and he was violent, threatening and she almost got her children taken into care as a result of living with him. DP's ex-wife was aware of all of this and still chose to end her marriage and move this man into the family home (whilst DP was still there). So I believe that whilst nobody deserves to be in an abusive relationship, I don't think she is entirely innocent of all blame.
Sorry about all the details, it is a quagmire of information and relationships, a twisted tangled web!

@Worriedandconcerned34 what @scoobydoo1971said. Definitely.

Please do not stop trying for these kids. When they look back as adults to try and make sense of their difficult childhood, you want to be able to look them in the eye and tell them you did everything you could.

Give your partner a kick and get him moving to prioritize his children and not an easy life.

I would email social services and put down all of your concerns in writing (repeat the historic too). Put in black and white what specific fears you have and the damage you feel the children are coming to and any significant risks. And then follow it up by telephone if you can. But so important to have that all in writing so it is logged on the record. If it’s just a phone call the social worker will log the call in their own words and you can’t be sure the details will be taken down as you say them.

And yes, as @scoobydoo1971 said as are massively in, so don't just accept the first thing they say, keep pushing

@Duggeehugs82

When i say joking i mean winding the poster up? Because thats pretty sick and weird

The poster who posts about snitching - or their favourite dry snitching - fits your description.

Claire law and Sarah’s law and yes you can put them in too.

SS are aware so your partner may get a call to take the kids at a moments notice or they’ll go into care if he won’t step up

Oh and the school will tell you what’s what same for the GP. I’m a step parent and I was the one doing the school and GP appointments through out and they never ever said we’ll have to contact dad.

repeating pp dont tell the mother - she could cover things up & force dc into lying by emotional blackmail - ie "you will be sent into foster care & I will go into prison"

I would contact social services again with the new info.
I would also encourage the kids to speak to a teacher about it when they go back to school as the teachers also have to do something.

Could you give the children the number for Childline and the social work and encourage the older one to phone that any time anything kicks off?

OP I have some experience of this because of what we are going through at the moment.

Social services - if the case is open or closed and you have new concerns you can report them to the Multi Agency Safeguarding Hub. If the case is open social services have concerns and will be working with her to assess on an ongoing basis.

You should absolutely report concerns if you have them. Ensure they are founded in fact, ensure they are not malicious and if you can, provide proof.

In all honesty though, my own recent experience of safeguarding is that as soon as the threat is removed, and that could be as simple as ‘she doesn’t see him on the same days as she has the children’, or ‘she says she’s ended the relationship’ cafcass and social services step back unless she is the person abusing the children.

We filed a court application for this reason, and it’s serious, repeated offending for DV with children present including turning up uninvited and torching an ex partners house and cafcass don’t see it as a risk because they say the relationship is over.

No onus of proof on that, just because one person says so, therefore it must be. They don’t take into account future risk.

Report as much as you have proof to report, but please don’t expect too much. My recent experience makes me very sad for children at risk.

@HappyPunky

I would contact social services again with the new info. I would also encourage the kids to speak to a teacher about it when they go back to school as the teachers also have to do something.

The teacher bit too. 100 percent

@Coffeeandbeans

When the children are at yours let them know that they are welcome at yours whenever they want, they don’t have to follow the timetable and they can turn up anytime. Give them your number and say the same thing. They can call you text you anytime. Could your DP have a safe “word” that his kids text him if the they need to get them from mums. Just ideas. I can’t believe anyone would say reporting child protection is snitching.

This too

@Spandang, thanks for that, was good (probably not the right word) to hear from others in similar situations.

To be honest I am worried that anything I say will be seen as malicious, particularly as I instigated the contact with child services last time round. Even though everything I have said on this post is 100% true.

I am astounded by some of these responses.
The children's well being should be the priority.
Report report report.
This is more important than anything else. Your instincts and your knowledge of their set up tell you there is something wrong. Please please take action.
Ignore those posters who say leave it.
I work in safeguarding and its attitudes like these ie keep out / mind your own business that lead to not enough evidence to help vulnerable children.

Some of the replies on here saying 'stay out of it' ‘they’ve proven themselves so leave them alone’ are hilarious. My stepchildren are in a similar situation OP, more neglect though they have been pushed and hit too, and whenever I post about it here I’m told it’s disgusting that we have just left it to go on, their dad is terrible and he should care more. We have tried everything, mum is untouchable, even the school safeguarding have seen photos etc and just brushed it away. The social services threshold is far too high IMO.
In my situation OP, I just control what I can...when the children are with us half the time I make sure they always have clean beds, plenty of food, wardrobes full of clean clothes, we do lots of fun activities together, we eat together and watch movies together and actually socialise, they are allowed their friends in whenever they want. Polar opposite to their mums. What else can I do?

The children being exposed to DV is enough reason in itself to report.

Sorry I haven’t read the all the comments, as it’s such a triggering topic for me. Just in case no one has said it, if you feel that social services etc are not truly understand the circumstances and therefore not taking appropriate steps, then it’s appropriate to contact the NSPPC, tell them your concerns and they can use their position to get the situation reviewed. The welfare of children is all of our concern and on the child welfare course I attended recently (on zoom and only a couple of hours, as it’s not my role doesn’t work directly with children role, so I may not be 100% accurate with my terminology) it was made very clear that it is important to voice concerns. You are not their parent and don’t have parental responsibility but you are an adult with an awareness of what is happening in their lives. Nor are you in a position to make a judgement or accurate assessment on what’s going on, as that’s the responsibility of the trained professionals but it is your responsibility to say you’re concerned. You don’t have to be sure and you may not be right but if you’re legitimately concerned then it’s so important you act, as children cannot protect themselves.

All the best.

@Worriedandconcerned34

I think I'm going to ask DP to speak to his ex-wife first before I do anything else. I'm not sure where this will get us, I don't believe the ex-wife will be in any way shape or form co-operative but then at least if child services do get in touch she cannot deny that DP has tried to reach out about this.

What do you think?

I wouldn't. That just gives time for the ex (and her partner) to plan what they are going to say, and possibly to pressure the children into what they say.

My parents were abusive and every organised intervention was easily circumvented by them. It was only a random question at a random time that caught me (at 7) off guard that showed the true picture.