Should I ask to speak to child services behind my partner's back?

[Worriedandconcerned34]

Hi,
Posting here for traffic and also because I am hoping for some genuine advice. This could well turn out to be an essay, so please forgive me.

I have strong suspicions that my partner's children (who live with his ex-wife) are being abused emotionally by their mother's partner. I don't believe they are being harmed physically but I don't know how long this will remain the case. We see these children 50% of the time, so on a regular basis throughout the week.

My partner knows about it and we have contacted child services numerous times in the past year. There is a case-worker assigned but we haven't heard from them since June and it appears as though they have closed the case. I worry that they have closed the case as the children are fed, clean, clothed - they are not being neglected. My partner is now reluctant to rock the boat any further as one of the children involved is not biologically his but he has always classed them as his own. But he has been threatened by the ex-wife that he will not get to see this child if he continues to (in her words) "try and ruin her life". So he is seemingly content to let things play out.

The signs of emotional abuse that we have been made aware of:
Ex-wife's partner has called the children names like "Dick". He has called the children fat and told them they are "mental". He has insisted they call him Daddy. He has threatened to abduct one of the children. He has been arrested for common assault against one of the children but the charges were dropped. He has taken videos on his phone of the children crying and he appears to be all nice on camera asking them why they are so upset and afraid of him. He has pinned their mum up against the wall. There have been at least 3 occasions the police have been called in the last 4 months by neighbours due to the shouting and this man has damaged the property and kicked holes in the doors. He has broken/barged his way into the house and shouted at the children whilst they were on factime with their friends and apparently their friends were all crying watching what was going on. This has all happened whilst the children have been at the property. There are two children involved here, one is my partner's daughter and is 9 years old. The other girl (not my partner's) is 13. The older child has been posting alarming social media videos saying she wants to die and has been self-harming. When approached about this the ex-wife says that the children are making a big fuss over nothing. I appreciate that a lot of what the children say (which I haven't posted here) sounds like normal children rebelling against authority - things like not wanting to go out and exercise, not wanting to play a game with each other, fighting and bickering but I am tearing my hair out trying to think of what else I can do to help these kids. If my partner is not willing to try again, what can I do? Should I contact the social worker again?

I should add that the ex-wife has promised over and over again to my partner that this man is gone for good. But then she takes him back again within two weeks. This has happened on three occasions throughout lockdown. Nothing changes.

I am a little bit lost as I tried so hard to get this man removed from the children's house but I am only a partner to their father. I have no say in what happens. Should I get involved again? I know that if I ask my partner if he wants to take anything further then he will say no, based on what kicked off last time. But these children are being systematically abused and failed by everyone in their lives, or so it seems to me. I don't think I can just sit back and watch. I have told my partner every time that I have spoken to the case worker or NSPCC, or whoever else I have tried to get some help from. But this time I know he won't want me to disturb the semi-peace that is happening now.

What should I do, Mumsnet? :(

@ChockyBicky

Leave the family alone, you've put them through the mill once and they've proved themselves. Now back off.

What?? Unless your claiming to know the family that's nothing here to suggest three mom and this guy have proved themselves as adequate caregivers

The welfare of those children is the most important thing here. I’d risk incurring my partners wrath and even the breakdown of the relationship to keep them safe. You will probably find another partner but those children only have one childhood.

‘The 13 year old opened up this weekend‘ - that sounds like a cry for help to me.

Would contacting social services and being honest help? Can you say you are aware that there have already been investigations but you are still very concerned? I would keep plugging away if you can. Be the bad guy if you have to be and let the D.C. hate you and love their dad. It will be worth it if you can protect them and I am sure they would be grateful in the long run.

@Flutterpieandpinkieshy

OP

For the love of God don't keep out of this, the older girl is screaming out for help! The people on here are unbelievable, calling you a snitch or to keep out of it.

No one shoulder ever turn a blind eye where children are potentially being abused.

Some posters need to recheck thier morals.

I didn't say that. The OP has been clear she's speaking to him. And even if he prevaricates or opposes, that she will go ahead and report. This is a very good thing.

I was only suggesting that going behind his back, and reporting in an abstract way, is a form of (dry) snitching maybe, and she doesn't want to put herself in a position where she is uncomfortable

Really surprised at the first few responses!

Absolutely you should keep pushing on this and trying to get help for the poor children.

Bloody hell at the first few responses. There are children quite clearly being abused and you're the one being accused of putting that family through the mill and snitching!

Well done OP for caring as much as you do. Emotional abuse CAN be more damaging than physical. I know this from personal experience.

Not sure what the answer is and I would hate to give bad advice but hopefully this thread will help

I think I'm going to ask DP to speak to his ex-wife first before I do anything else.
I'm not sure where this will get us, I don't believe the ex-wife will be in any way shape or form co-operative but then at least if child services do get in touch she cannot deny that DP has tried to reach out about this.

What do you think?

Ffs take the kids to yours
They won’t hate their father for removing them from their mother she is in a violent relationship and SS will be there in the background and she could have them removed anyways better being st yours than in care.

Plus reporting to SS and not telling partner isn’t snitching ffs it’s helping those kids he isn’t seeing the bigger picture but he will when he gets that knock on the door for something much worse he’s complicit in this as he knew and didn’t want to rock the boat ffs

Keep reporting OP

Please keep reporting OP, there are innocent children at real risk here and I could just not ignore that...follow your gut, please.

I wish we could keep the kids here, but if DP isn't willing, then I can hardly insist upon this without fear of police turning up on my doorstep and arresting me for child abduction (!)

Also talk to the designated safeguarding lead at the children's school's especially the thirteen year olds school. They won't be able to give any information back to you, but you could be supplying the final piece in the jigsaw that enable help to be given to the children.

You have no idea who anyone is on mumsnet - including me. Probably some abusers are on here. Lots of abuse victims are also on here.
I'm following the advice given in my safeguarding training for if a child or young person made a similar disclosure to me. The only thing that stops me ringing up and reporting this solely on the information on this thread is that I don't even know where you are. It would be a sackable offence for me to do otherwise.

Not behind your partners back. Definitely not. Can you encourage the children to talk to you and their dad. Spend more time with their dad. Offer to have them full time if they would like. But going behind his back is not the thing to do.

This worries me because my ex has one of children and if I knew his future partner was doing it I would appreciate someone stepping in but given what I’ve found out and experienced personally you have done everything you can and best to leave it now because it’s so hard when it’s emotion abuse to prove anything ! It’s terrifying but true.. Social sometimes get it Very wrong and People who are seriously emotionally abusing seem to get away it.. it’s so insidious so sometimes it’s not their fault as they can’t see it.

Snitching is a pathetic word that belongs in the playground. Something is either necessary to report or it isn't. It is better to have the DH on board if at all possible but if not the OP can still legitimately report.

Have you been with dp long?

I once knew a couple who were concerned about his biological child and social services took the roll of his partner very seriously as a prominent parent in the child's life and she was very much involved and invited to all meetings and sent minutes and updated.

I think we've come along way from partner not having rights without marriage and so you might have more rights than you think just for being a substantial parent figure in their upbringing and 50/50 you're there as much as mum and it sounds like you're their main support right now.

If your so concerned why are the DC not staying with you 100%? If i was that worried about abuse I wouldnt send my DC back to that.

Bit of a long game but can he request to adopt the 13 year old? If he has been her father since birth, and she doesnt have contact with bio dad, she might be happy about this?

I'm assuming this would give him PR and the option to go for full custody for both of them? As the situation at their mothers sounds intolerable.

Well done for caring. I am the first to admit I am no fan of step parents, but you seem to be a positive in their lives at a time they desperately need it.

Oh yeah get your other half onboard. It maybe the children’s voices will be listened to and they are old enough to be listened to he maybe be able to go for residency ? That’s an option , I’m sure they assign guardians to children’s who are old enough?

OP I am the safeguarding lead of a primary school. Please keep reporting this, the children need you to.

You should be able to contact the safeguarding leads of the children’s schools even though it’s the holidays if you feel it will help.

Honestly I can’t believe the comments about snitching, minding your own business etc. Child safeguarding is everyone’s business.

I often think back to my own abusive childhood and wonder how on earth so many adults saw signs of what was going on, and yet all that ended up happening was social services came over for a quick chat with my parents and then buggered off again.

This thread has made me understand. People think it's "snitching" and that if social services have already been involved once then it's putting the parents through too much to raise any new concerns.

This is how I ended up being a punching bag. This is how I ended up with an eating disorder and on antidepressants before I'd even finished school. Abuse absolutely does escalate and it sounds like that could be happening right now in that house. Those poor kids. I really pity them because they're probably going through something similar to what I went through, and none of the adults in their life are prepared to stand up for them.

@sunflowersandtulips50

If your so concerned why are the DC not staying with you 100%? If i was that worried about abuse I wouldnt send my DC back to that.

It's not as easy as that. Especially if one is not biologically theirs. This would technically be abduction and the police would see it that way. The other option is separating the kids which would leave the other in a potentially angry, violent situation without their sibling

There has been a wide range of responses. I would say if they have a case worker then agree with your H that you will keep a record and report new incidents. It may not lead to an action immediately, but will keep the record open.

My cousin had a couple of incidents with his now wife. They used to have very feisty fights where she would assault him and the police were called. They have actually sorted themselves out and are in a good place now. But they were on the watch register without their knowledge as a result (my Aunt was a social worker so she knew this had happened).

Anyway, this family is probably still on a watch list even if they don't realise it. I would just flagconcerns, particularly if the teen is starting to struggle with self harm. Perhaps keep the door open if the children choose to stay with you and your H more often.

But you do need to step gently right now. Let the kids know you are there for them, that you will do all you can to protect them, and will stand up on tehir behalf if they want you to.

You sound amazing OP and thank god these kids have you to believe them and fight for them.

The fact SS haven’t taken it further is not the reassurance some posters seem to think it is. They are snowed under and have to prioritise which leaves many kids alone until it is too late.

Your plan to ask your DP to talk to his ex and then contact the case worker is sound. If he refuses then you can tell the ex yourself that out of ongoing concern for the kids you want an independent professional to talk to them and offer advice on the situation.

I’m shocked at the posts on here saying keep your nose out and don’t interfere. Genuine concern that children are facing abuse should never ever be ignored. Shot stirring for the sake of it is a completely different issue and it’s very clear that is not your intention.

Going behind his back though is snitching, I'm sorry people don't like that word but it is what it is, I'm just calling it out when I see it

The word is like the bat signal for you. Seriously, seek some help.

@ellsom, have been with DP for about two years, we have a five month old baby boy to add into the mix. Which is something else to consider if I risk ending our relationship over all this. I don't think our relationship would end. It didn't last time when we got the case worker involved.

@sunflowersandtulips50 yes absolutely, if they were my children that is what I would be doing.

The thing is and I apologise if this is a bit drip-feed-y. The man doesn't live at the mother's house full time, according to the children he is there two nights a week. He used to live with them full time until around March this year when he was arrested for assaulting one of them. Case worker said that they visited the house and he wasn't there, the children seemed ok but their mother wouldn't let them in and they could only speak on the doorstep. That's why they wanted to speak to the children at our house.

For anyone with experience of child protection services/work, do you think this sounds as though they could still be monitoring the situation? If they thought that this man wasn't present at the house and wouldn't be in future? The mother has informed DP (and the children as well) about 3 times now that he wouldn't be allowed back in the house and each time she's gone back on her word. The kids don't know if they are coming or going.

I also can't believe the 'snitching', mind your own business posts (admittedly only the first two on here, but WTAF!). It IS your business, it is everyone's business when a vulnerable child is being abused.

I honestly wish there were more people like you in the world OP and a less of those who would walk on by and watch a child suffer because it is 'none of their business', shame on them. As an adult who grew up in similar circumstances I can only say that I wish someone had stepped up for me. OP - please ignore the ignorant and and do whatever you can, those kids deserve and and will appreciate it.