Should I ask to speak to child services behind my partner's back?

[Worriedandconcerned34]

Hi,
Posting here for traffic and also because I am hoping for some genuine advice. This could well turn out to be an essay, so please forgive me.

I have strong suspicions that my partner's children (who live with his ex-wife) are being abused emotionally by their mother's partner. I don't believe they are being harmed physically but I don't know how long this will remain the case. We see these children 50% of the time, so on a regular basis throughout the week.

My partner knows about it and we have contacted child services numerous times in the past year. There is a case-worker assigned but we haven't heard from them since June and it appears as though they have closed the case. I worry that they have closed the case as the children are fed, clean, clothed - they are not being neglected. My partner is now reluctant to rock the boat any further as one of the children involved is not biologically his but he has always classed them as his own. But he has been threatened by the ex-wife that he will not get to see this child if he continues to (in her words) "try and ruin her life". So he is seemingly content to let things play out.

The signs of emotional abuse that we have been made aware of:
Ex-wife's partner has called the children names like "Dick". He has called the children fat and told them they are "mental". He has insisted they call him Daddy. He has threatened to abduct one of the children. He has been arrested for common assault against one of the children but the charges were dropped. He has taken videos on his phone of the children crying and he appears to be all nice on camera asking them why they are so upset and afraid of him. He has pinned their mum up against the wall. There have been at least 3 occasions the police have been called in the last 4 months by neighbours due to the shouting and this man has damaged the property and kicked holes in the doors. He has broken/barged his way into the house and shouted at the children whilst they were on factime with their friends and apparently their friends were all crying watching what was going on. This has all happened whilst the children have been at the property. There are two children involved here, one is my partner's daughter and is 9 years old. The other girl (not my partner's) is 13. The older child has been posting alarming social media videos saying she wants to die and has been self-harming. When approached about this the ex-wife says that the children are making a big fuss over nothing. I appreciate that a lot of what the children say (which I haven't posted here) sounds like normal children rebelling against authority - things like not wanting to go out and exercise, not wanting to play a game with each other, fighting and bickering but I am tearing my hair out trying to think of what else I can do to help these kids. If my partner is not willing to try again, what can I do? Should I contact the social worker again?

I should add that the ex-wife has promised over and over again to my partner that this man is gone for good. But then she takes him back again within two weeks. This has happened on three occasions throughout lockdown. Nothing changes.

I am a little bit lost as I tried so hard to get this man removed from the children's house but I am only a partner to their father. I have no say in what happens. Should I get involved again? I know that if I ask my partner if he wants to take anything further then he will say no, based on what kicked off last time. But these children are being systematically abused and failed by everyone in their lives, or so it seems to me. I don't think I can just sit back and watch. I have told my partner every time that I have spoken to the case worker or NSPCC, or whoever else I have tried to get some help from. But this time I know he won't want me to disturb the semi-peace that is happening now.

What should I do, Mumsnet? :(

I was unsure until you listed all the examples, but now I have chills running down my spine. I think I’d be insisting on more custody or custody - get your DP to see a solicitor.

What is also important - is how do you really know that these things happened? Like really know? This is not to trip you up. But if it is all from the children then just to completely double check yourself - get some expert advice - I’m not sure who from but some really good advice - about how to know for sure that this is the case.

I’m only saying this because if you are going to go on with this - you need to be as sure as you can that it is not the kids exaggerating. I’m not saying it sounds like it - but it is worth just taking a moment back.

Then I also wonder if you can contact a different SW, or the manager, and just press again and say there are ongoing concerns that need to be investigated too.

Who on earth calls someone reporting someone who could potentially abusing children a snitch? R u joking? ...just wow

'snitching' is their thing. A common theme between posts. Can only conclude they were bullied at school tbh.

snitching?

Is this the playground?

You haven’t put anyone through the mill and are not snitching. Honestly, this place sometimes. Those poor kids. No advice, but well done for advocating for those poor kids.

When i say joking i mean winding the poster up? Because thats pretty sick and weird

Also, I’d be getting help for the older child no matter what. Posting videos like that is alarming no matter what the reason. It also means there will be more professionals around to semi keep an eye on things.

My partner has given the children his telephone number and has told them to call him (the eldest has a mobile phone). He has told them to call their grandma if anything happens and they can't get hold of him.

He has spoken with the grandmother and shared his concerns and she agrees. However neither seem to want to rock the boat or upset the mother at all. I get it - it's her daughter when all is said and done. I think they are both hoping that things will work themselves out and that this man will eventually leave. It's been three years that he has been involved with the kids mum and he's still coming round to the house now.

Regarding the social media posts - these were raised with the case worker back in June. There has been nothing said about them since.

@ChockyBicky

we have contacted child services numerous times in the past year. There is a case-worker assigned but we haven't heard from them since June and it appears as though they have closed the case.

You don't know anything, you said you just have suspicions, social workers will know as they will have dug around and looked into the facts and made their decision accordingly.

I am only a partner to their father. I have no say in what happens. Should I get involved again?

No

Because overwofked social workers don't have to triage. And they never make mistakes...

Op doesn't know how much they've even tried

Continue to express your concerns so there is a record of each incident. Do it via the NSPCC if you prefer. Safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility.

Wow some people are real pigs.

This is a serious issue. I would fight every step for those kids even if I wasn't related and barely knew them. Child abuse is a real issue and problem. Call the social again and even the police next time the kids come to visit so they can talk one on one with the police. Sorry to hear all if this, it must be so hard.

You are not snitching

OP, I'm a psychologist working with adults who were abused or traumatised as children.

Very frequently the adults blame themselves for what happened to them as children, it's what keeps them stuck in a pattern of self-hatred, depression, self harm, damaging relationships. And SO often the thing they say to 'prove' to me that the abuse was their fault or 'wasn't that bad' was that the healthy adults in their life at the time KNEW what was happening and did nothing. "If it was that bad/not my fault, someone would have done something/helped me"

Please don't stop thinking of ways to help these children and thank you for caring

I highly suspect if you were a mother concerned about abuse in the father's home the advice on here would be to keep the children with you and not let him see them until it's sorted out.

The social media posts need seriously looking at OP. Has he taken her to a doctor? A counsellor? Anything? I know you've informed SS but she needs help now if she's posting things like that and self harming.

Has he even asked her about the posts?

@Worriedandconcerned34

If you have concerns about these children then carry on pursuing social services. Don't assume that because you haven't heard since June they have closed the case. They are inundated right now.
I know from personal experience that only the people who shout loudest and longest get heard

I can't believe that people are telling op to just leave it..... in my opinion and experience social services are absolutely shite! They won't do anything until someone is seriously injured or dies.
I actually called social services last week about a vulnerable adult and they told me 'we visited him FOUR YEARS ago and he had capacity and told us he didn't want any help so we won't be reopening the case'
If you truly behave those children need help then please push it!
I didn't push it with a relative and that person died 6 months ago, alone and neglected and it breaks my heart every single day!

Definitely contact Social Services again. You are not "snitching", it is definitely your business. CHILD ABUSE IS ALL OF OUR BUSINESS, EACH AND EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME.

You are 100% right to be concerned about escalation to physical abuse. Even if he doesn't target the children directly, children are often harmed when there is physical abuse in the home. For example, if they try to protect their mum when this man goes for her. Which they are likely to try and do, because who likes seeing their mother assaulted?

Your partner needs to understand that his child being safe from emotional abuse is more important than his need to not have "drama" in his life.

You are doing the right thing OP. And someone needs to be, for the sake of these children

@IceCreamSummer20 agreed. My first thought was to speak to my partner about the custody arrangement, but he doesn't want to split the children up because one of them isn't his.
The child that isn't his is the one that seems the most affected by all of this and so my partner doesn't have any legal rights to say what can and can't happen to her.

Yes, I don't have any concrete evidence, other than the police being called round for the domestic violence incidents. All I have are the children's words and the social media posts where the older one has specifically mentioned her step-dad as abusing her.
I know a lot of the social media stuff can be put down to attention-seeking, but I cannot disregard all of things she is saying as there is no smoke without fire.

A few things that the children have told us have also been corroborated by the grandmother.

Imagine she posted this a few months down the line after something horrible happens and says oh I did have further suspicions but didn’t act on them. You’d all be baiting for her blood - poor woman can’t win here can she.

also agree with @Ted27. Social services are inundated with referrals
And further more, they are not always as robust in handling cases of domestic abuse as they should be. People don't understand the harm it does to children, including some social workers.

What’s your partners relationship like with the school? You could encourage the children disclose what is happening to the pastoral care team or a teacher. I would say the school definitely need to be aware of the 13year olds self harming.

Also, I know a household where the children where neglected, Mam was on drugs, partners were violent, house dirty etc.
Social services kept just telling her to tidy up and then closing the case because she managed for a few weeks, despite children's dads (there were a few) wanting custody ss wouldn't grant it and kept giving her chance after chance.

Fast forward 10 years + & a few more kids. Youngest kids were adopted, so safe thank god! But one of the older ones had a baby at 15 and another one is now doing drugs, causing trouble, stealing etc. And his dad has no control of him. Ss completely failed those older kids and to be honest even the younger ones by not removing them sooner.

How do you know that other anonymous people have already/are planning to report the abuse? Looking after the safety of children isn’t snitching and sticking your nose in. They are kids. Absolutely yes give them phone numbers if they need them. Give them child line , nspcc . And police if they are genuinely scared of physical attack to them or their mother. Make sure they know how to protect themselves at home if something kicks off ie do they know to maybe lock in bathroom and take phone to contact their dad/police for help??? Don’t ignore this. They need someone to step up for them. Especially when their mum
Is ignoring it or playing it down ( as an abused person would) and their dad doesn’t want to ‘rock the boat’ but is happy his kids are terrified.

God the people on here are arseholes saying you are snitching please keep a diary of the abuse that is happening and keep contracting social services. The mum sounds like a piece of shit aswell so you have a battle on your hands but you are doing the best thing for these kids. Have the school been told of this situation and the children's doctors. I would litrally involve everyone who has come in to contact with the kids. The world needs more people like you who are willing to stand up for the kids and get slated in the process. Please don't stop reporting the comment about the child being shouted at on facetime and the friend being so scared they cried to is just so shocking and makes me so sad.

Thanks everyone for your support on this. I'm almost crying here - probably makes me sound like a big baby! It is just very hard to feel like no one is willing to help and you are pushing against a brick wall.

For everyone who has advised me to keep out, I hear what you are saying. I think I need to speak to my partner about what we need to do together. Maybe I have stirred up instant animosity (for want of a better word) by referring to going behind my partner's back.

It's difficult because I believed a lot of what my son said about his Dad and partner until one day his dp called and accused me of the exact same things he said to us about them.

We bought him an Xbox one year along with other presents and when his df came to the door one day he hid the Xbox and said he had told them we didn't buy him any Christmas presents as he wasn't aloud presents.

This also came up when his dad rang to ask why we'd told him to pretend he hadn't bought him any presents as he wasn't aloud presents, when questioning son he figured he'd get more presents out of sympathy if he said the other didn't buy him any.

This was the same with phones, tablets that he'd broken and told us he wasn't aloud one because they had no money so we bought another one and told them the same when he wanted a newer one that we'd sold it to pay bills and then say they'd done the same.

I'm just saying kids can be clever and children's services will have to look at so much more from the inside that what it looks like on the outside isn't always what it appears.
That's not to say you shouldn't listen because you must but you have done all you can and if things aren't as you think and you are just seemingly causing trouble they will obviously have unkind words about you.