Should I ask to speak to child services behind my partner's back?

[Worriedandconcerned34]

Hi,
Posting here for traffic and also because I am hoping for some genuine advice. This could well turn out to be an essay, so please forgive me.

I have strong suspicions that my partner's children (who live with his ex-wife) are being abused emotionally by their mother's partner. I don't believe they are being harmed physically but I don't know how long this will remain the case. We see these children 50% of the time, so on a regular basis throughout the week.

My partner knows about it and we have contacted child services numerous times in the past year. There is a case-worker assigned but we haven't heard from them since June and it appears as though they have closed the case. I worry that they have closed the case as the children are fed, clean, clothed - they are not being neglected. My partner is now reluctant to rock the boat any further as one of the children involved is not biologically his but he has always classed them as his own. But he has been threatened by the ex-wife that he will not get to see this child if he continues to (in her words) "try and ruin her life". So he is seemingly content to let things play out.

The signs of emotional abuse that we have been made aware of:
Ex-wife's partner has called the children names like "Dick". He has called the children fat and told them they are "mental". He has insisted they call him Daddy. He has threatened to abduct one of the children. He has been arrested for common assault against one of the children but the charges were dropped. He has taken videos on his phone of the children crying and he appears to be all nice on camera asking them why they are so upset and afraid of him. He has pinned their mum up against the wall. There have been at least 3 occasions the police have been called in the last 4 months by neighbours due to the shouting and this man has damaged the property and kicked holes in the doors. He has broken/barged his way into the house and shouted at the children whilst they were on factime with their friends and apparently their friends were all crying watching what was going on. This has all happened whilst the children have been at the property. There are two children involved here, one is my partner's daughter and is 9 years old. The other girl (not my partner's) is 13. The older child has been posting alarming social media videos saying she wants to die and has been self-harming. When approached about this the ex-wife says that the children are making a big fuss over nothing. I appreciate that a lot of what the children say (which I haven't posted here) sounds like normal children rebelling against authority - things like not wanting to go out and exercise, not wanting to play a game with each other, fighting and bickering but I am tearing my hair out trying to think of what else I can do to help these kids. If my partner is not willing to try again, what can I do? Should I contact the social worker again?

I should add that the ex-wife has promised over and over again to my partner that this man is gone for good. But then she takes him back again within two weeks. This has happened on three occasions throughout lockdown. Nothing changes.

I am a little bit lost as I tried so hard to get this man removed from the children's house but I am only a partner to their father. I have no say in what happens. Should I get involved again? I know that if I ask my partner if he wants to take anything further then he will say no, based on what kicked off last time. But these children are being systematically abused and failed by everyone in their lives, or so it seems to me. I don't think I can just sit back and watch. I have told my partner every time that I have spoken to the case worker or NSPCC, or whoever else I have tried to get some help from. But this time I know he won't want me to disturb the semi-peace that is happening now.

What should I do, Mumsnet? :(

I think it's a minefield given the issue towards your partner but I am absolutely gobsmacked by these responses. A snitch?! Last week there was a thread where someone was absolutely hammered for adjusting her child's age to get into an attraction and the words 'report her /him' for the most minor of things are thrown around daily. But a man is abusing his wife and child (one of whom is suicidal) and she just stay out of it....or of course as a woman support the mother (who has threatened to stop contact). I am absolutely baffled.
OP, in your shoes I'd kick up a stink from now til the end of time. It must be so difficult for you.

You're not a snitch or ruining anyone's life OP.

Posters also seem to be unaware that a long time can pass and many chances can be given before something is actually done.

I get your partner's worry as he has no right to the older child, neither has the grandma. If things go to shit the 13 yo will be left with no outside support. Lack of contact for a while is better than a dead child or traumatised for life due to her life conditions.

That being said, this situation is not sustainable either. She is being harmed right now and by the sounds of it the situation is severely affecting her mental health.

Some things you can do..

Can you have the children over more?
Can you get in touch with their schools(even in the summer holidays there is normally someone there) and report what is happening?
I'd ring NSPCC for more advice.
Your partner should ring SS and find out what is going on ,at least in regards to his child. He has that right. He shouldn't wait for them to contact him.
Liaise with grandma and if she can and wants , she should try and have the kids as much as possible too.

Encourage the 13 yo to ring her dad/grandma is things are not right. Provide her the childline and NSPCC number.

At the moment because of the summer holidays and lockdown the children are very vulnerable, no escape when they're with their mum, no adults to notice and escalate things when it's all bad.

Your partner needs to play the long game and not worry about just the next week/month. Because this is not going away or getting any better. Odds are it will only get worse, and I've seen completely normal ,happyish,average children end up so harmed,so angry, so traumatised that they couldn't even be in a classroom anymore.

Why isn't their father fighting for the children if he truly loved them this would be unacceptable and he'd be doing something about it like getting a child arrangements order for a change of residency if this is too much like hard work then you've got to question whether or not he really wants to be a father

You on the other can do nothing but support the children inform the school safe guarding officer and hope that these disclosures will support your application in court

First of all, log everything the children say. Write it down with the dates. Make sure they know you will always believe them and they can tell you anything. You are their safe haven at the moment. You are in a difficult position, but if you have a written reminder of everything that happens, your husband may realise he really shouldn't be worried about rocking the boat.

Some of the responses telling the OP to
Keep out of it/not being a snitch are fucking shocking!!! Well done OP for not giving up and letting your conscience guide you. It is NOT OKAY what the mum and her partner are doing to these children. She's clearly being abused by the vile man herself and has her blinkers on. Please don't give up. And if she puts a stop to her eldest not seeing your DH then that's on her but is your partner really going to turn his back on his own DD too for fear of this happening? Keep knocking on those doors until you're taken seriously and something positive happens.

If the Police have been called out on numerous occasions, a welfare check and SS would of been involved. If these issues are new then yes report them, if however you are going back over things already known to them then no.

@ZooKeeper19
@caringcarer

Asking a child to report abuse particularly from within the house on the telephone is dangerous.

Incidentally at 13 the child must have some contact with teachers at the moment even it not physically in school - is this an option ?

I agree with those that are saying to contact social services if your partner won't. Obviously he can exercise his PR and keep his daughter with you if he is concerned. He needs to step up here and protect these children. If he doesn't, he is failing them. It sounds like his ex needs a lot of help herself but he's not the person to provide that and the children need to be his priority.
If he won't, I'd be questioning whether I want to be with this man tbh.

Re the step daughter, is her father in the picture? I'm just wondering if your partner would be able to make an application for a Child Arrangements Order for both children?
If her bio father isn't around and he has a long and established relationship with her, it might be possible. Expert legal advice would be needed and he would need permission from the court to apply as he's not a blood relative.

Fuck. Me.

Stay out of it?? Really??? Stay out of child abuse?

@Worriedandconcerned34 I would contact them again. Because how can you not when you know what’s happening?

Probably not the best thing but any chance you and your partner refuse to send the girls back once they're with you? That'll get everyone to stand up and take notice- the police will be involved, SS, the courts and then they can decide what the best course of action.

I can't believe some of the earlier responses. If anyone other than a step mother or possibly a MIL were posting they wouldn't get those responses. I would try to give the older child information to get help for herself (eg childline). It's difficult while they are out of school as there are fewer safeguards. Emotional abuse is often overlooked as it is more difficult to prove than physical abuse.

So there is a violent man living in your H’s home, abusing his children and their mother, the older child is in mental distress, and he wants to keep out of it for his own sake. You’re right OP, the children are being failed by the adults in their lives, including their father.

I would report, again and again and again, every time something happened that caused me concern. If you don’t then it doesn’t sound like anybody else will bother. Ther mum sounds like she’s well in the clutches of this abusive man and can’t see the wood for the trees and the father is selfish and more worried about himself.

If the police have been to the house during lockdown then this should have triggered alerts to SS, but for whatever reason it obviously hasn’t, or they have been ignored.

This is an intolerable situation for the DC. Keep reporting OP, you sound like you’re the only one who gives a shit. Don’t apologise either, why would you apologise for thinking it’s unacceptable for kids to be subjected to abuse? If your H has a problem then the problem lies with him, not you. Likewise SS, if they don’t think it’s enough of an issue then they are also in the wrong. One understands they are stretched beyond their limits, especially at the moment, but that is not the DCs fault and they shouldn’t have to suffer because of it.

I can't believe some of the responses on here.

Of course you're right to report if you're worried about the children, it's not snitching. However I doubt anything will be done, unless there is neglect or physical abuse.

Unfortunately social services are so stretched that that even in less-than-ideal households there is unlikely to be intervention as long as the children are physically safe.

The famous quote springs to mind - "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

Maybe I have stirred up instant animosity (for want of a better word) by referring to going behind my partner's back

No animosity from me, I think you're incredibly brave to consider doing that. If your partner is being useless in safeguarding his kids then I admire you for considering stepping up and doing it for him!

And, if what the DC are telling you isn’t true, that still indicates that they have serious issues. Again, not your fault and it needs dealing with.

I have been keeping track of every incident we have been told about over the last three years. I have recorded it word for word, including things I have said and my partner have said to the mother and this man to give it credibility/no bias.

In the last three years there have been 70 occasions where I have recorded something, 40 of these incidents have occurred since March, when lockdown began. I think more things have happened before but we were not aware of things. I won't list the other disturbing things from the last three years, as PP have mentioned, these formed part of our original report to child services, there is no need to keep informing them of the same things.

I agree that child services are overworked and there will always be a priority list. The case worker was due to come and speak to the children at our house about their home life at their mums. We got them ready and told them that this was nothing to do with their mum and we are not trying to get her into trouble or anything like that. However the case worker never showed up, and rang me 45 minutes after they were due to be at our house to say something had come up. That was the last time I heard from them.

Thank god the sensible people finally came to this thread.
You really do need to push this further if you are concerned for these children. Their father absolutely needs to step up. I think you need to talk to him again and make him read like he is complicit in their abuse if he doesn't act now. The fact the kids grandmother feels the same way shows there is something going on not just kids playing up. This needs to be taken seriously before to much damage is done.

@Worriedandconcerned34

I agree you shouldn't go behind your partner's back, but he should be told in no uncertain terms that if he doesn't do something, then you will

Again though I have to ask, what is he doing about the self harming stuff? Has he spoken to her about it at least?

Saying she wants to die is very serious OP. He needs to do something about that and now.

However the case worker never showed up, and rang me 45 minutes after they were due to be at our house to say something had come up. That was the last time I heard from them

You need to contact them again. These poor kids are being failed completely.

I have previously worked in child protection, with close association with front-line social workers and specialist police teams working on vulnerable person cases. What previous safeguarding inquiries show us (Baby P etc) is that social workers cannot make the right decisions without the full facts, and they often operate on incomplete or misleading information. They have hundreds of referrals to manage, and they have to decide with managers which cases meet the criteria for neglect, abuse etc under current legislation. COVID presents a particular challenge to social workers because children who are at risk may not be using community services (school, youth clubs etc) that may offer new insight into what happens at home.

I disagree with other posters who have said you have done your bit, or should stay out of this matter. You should go to a police station and request to speak to a senior office (like a DC). The police have a duty of care to children, and also have emergency powers. They could examine neighbours reports and re-interview the mother. They will refer back to social services, and it may take that action to have the matter re-evaluated. One of the messages from official reports is that repeat reporting by different agencies predicts a better, faster outcome for vulnerable children. If social workers know this woman is still in DV relationship with the man, they may insist on the relationship breakdown as a condition of her keeping the kids. Additionally, your partner should make legal arrangements to seek custody of his children as they are living in an emotionally and physically abusive environment. A court would listen to what the children have to say, and there may be official views from social workers or the police to use as evidence by the time of a hearing.

Go back to the social worker. 100%

Leave the family alone, you've put them through the mill once and they've proved themselves
Now back off

Christ, are you the man in question?

Ignore the bitter first wives club. If this was a post about (say) nieces and nephews, or the children of a friend, or an exDH's partner then you can BET that responses would highlight the police involvement and the potential danger the children are in and urge you to do something. But because you are a stepmother you can't be right no matter what you do.

Have you tried seeking advice from the school's contact and the NSPCC?