To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

Will be so personal. I absolutely loathed breastfeeding, I found it repulsive and panic inducing. Made me hate and resent dc1, less so dc2.

However other people successfully breastfeeding for longer than I stuck it out doesn't bother me at all. I think there needs to be more support for women who want to do it as well. When I had dc1 (5 years ago), we had a local drop in support group. By the time dc2 turned up 3 years later, nothing. References to "boobing" make me want to vomit though.

Also, the benefits of breastfeeding are always trotted out but never quantified.

The health benefits are tiny & only noticeable on a national level.

So it is a bit misleading really.

And yes I breastfed before anyone accused me of having an agenda.

I think you should stay neutral but if pushed to choose an option I'd choose YABU.

I'm breastfeeding DD and it's nice to see it being normalised because as much as people deny it there is some sort of wierd stigma still around breastfeeding in public. People constantly asking when you'll be stopping etc.

I agree that it won't dramatically improve breast feeding rates though as that will ultimately come with support. It may help give women who are seriously contemplating it but worried about public feeding, being the only one etc a nudge in the right direction.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@GlummyMcGlummerson

You're being a bit patronising if you think a glammed up boob photo is going to make a woman commit to feeding their baby for months/years. It's just self promotion under the guise of 'raising awareness', like a lot of things these days.

People dont choose not to bf because of a lack of photos of other people doing it. They choose not to because it is tiring, because it hurts and they don't like it, because they want help with the night feeds, or they just dont want to be sat in a chair feeding for hours every day when they have other kids to look after etc.

The answer to that is get them rested after the birth & help them crack it before they go home to make it as easy as possible.

Not boob photos or emotional 'humble' brags on Facebook.[/quote]
I honestly think this is one of the most sensible posts I've ever seen on MN. Getting new mothers rested after the birth is vital.

I had to stay in hospital for 4 nights after having DS1 as I tore so badly and had the same MW on the ward each night - she took the time to help me position DS so that the pain was lessened, taught me how to ensure he latched correctly, took him from me to ensure I managed to sleep. I maintain even now 15 years on that women like that should be leading the way in supporting women with breastfeeding in the UK; there was no pushiness or judgement of the woman in the bed next to me who chose not to. Just help. Kindness. Support. Advice from someone who knew what to look for.

Thanks Fudge! Normally I get flamed!

You're being a bit patronising if you think a glammed up boob photo is going to make a woman commit to feeding their baby for months/years. It's just self promotion under the guise of 'raising awareness', like a lot of things these days.

You would be surprised how many young women would be up for breastfeeding because a celebrity was doing it and putting it on their Instagram story.

You would be surprised how many young women would be up for breastfeeding because a celebrity was doing it and putting it on their Instagram story

I think that's more depressing than anything, and shows what a shameful lack of support or anything actually useful there is in place to help women BF.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@GlummyMcGlummerson but they're not just talking about it are they? They're writing bizarrely emotional self congratulatory nonsense. Not at all helpful. You wouldn't post about how fertile you are compared to other people and how it is 'such a blessing' would you? No, because that would be twatty.[/quote]
Why shouldnt they be self congratulatory at something they worked hard at? A better comparison would be someone celebrating after IVF - would you have a problem with that? That's celebrating what they've overcome in terms of fertility. They've worked harder than a woman who's conceived naturally. I for one wouldn't begrudge them bragging rights

So yes if a woman has faced a horrendous birth, cracked nipples, mastitis and sleepless nights and is still feeding at four months too right she should shout about it. That's an achievement for her, if it makes someone else feel bad well then that's on them not her.

We need to stop this bizarre stigma at women bragging about what they've done and what they're proud of in relation to their bodies. What I have learned is people do not like listening to women talking about the bodies in a non-sexual way.

Tell them to keep their arguments between themselves.

@Staplemaple

You would be surprised how many young women would be up for breastfeeding because a celebrity was doing it and putting it on their Instagram story

I think that's more depressing than anything, and shows what a shameful lack of support or anything actually useful there is in place to help women BF.

It wasn't always celebrities - if women (young women in particular) see their sisters, friends, mothers etc breastfeeding they're more likely to do it.

The celebrity thing I found was a big draw for teenage mothers in particular. Sad that you think it's depressing, I didn't realise there were rules on what are depressing and non-depressing inspirations.

The depressing part is that nothing else has made them consider that they could or would want to breastfeed throughout their maternity care, but a photo of a celebrity on insta would. It means they must be fairly open to the idea, but there's nothing in place to harness that and help them.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

Then why hasn't there been an enormous surge after Ashley Grahame, Myleene Klass, April Love Geary, Candice Swanepoel, Millie Mackintosh, Chloe & Lauryn Goodman...and that's just the ones I can remember off the top of my head!

The vast majority of women could successfully breastfeed if they are properly supported. Women who try and do not succeed did not fail, they were failed. That is why advocacy remains so important. Until women are truly supported by partners, family, hospitals, and society at large, women who want to breastfeed but fail will still exist.

@GlummyMcGlummerson I dont believe in bragging about natural bodily functions, no. I'm fine with a statement of fact, e.g. recommending best pump, or talking about how it went. But all the smugness is just odd.

@Kaiserin

I'd say YANBU because the current breastfeeding dogma is massively counterproductive: it creates undue pressure, guilt, unrealistic expectations, ... which all contribute to low breastfeeding rates in the long run, and poorly fed babies in the short run (when new mums desperately try, struggle, get excessively stressed, blame themselves, keep trying... and make themselves and their babies sick as a result)

Facts: (didn't check recently, but fairly sure that hasn't changed)

1. most women in the UK plan to breastfeed from day one
2. by 3 months, most babies in the UK are no longer significantly breastfed

No amount of chanting "breast is best" will change this. This approach is not working.
If people were serious about encouraging breastfeeding, they would try to identify the systemic obstacles which prevent it. I'd bet it starts in the postnatal wards from hell. And is made worse by the pathetically low numbers of fathers who take more than 2 weeks of parental leave. And the fact their extended family now often lives far away.

The bottom line is that breastfeeding women are absolutely not physically supported. Then don't need leaflets or slogans. They need expert practical advice, and rest, and plenty of food, so that they can be in top shape, establish feeding early, and sustain it. In practice they need "slaves" (kind relatives) around the house to look after them, and handle all the chores, and keep an eye on the baby while they get some sleep...
Some lucky superladies may manage without all this, but for most... This is why breastfeeding fails. Not enough genuine support that matters.
THIS is what people should be talking about during breastfeeding week (that, and mastitis, and scabbed nipples... and nipples shields, and breast pumps... and tongue tie, and how to tell from the colour of your newborn's poo whether they're getting adequate nutrition or not... and whether you should even bother with breastfeeding bras and breast pads, or just wear baggy t-shirts and change them every few hours, etc., etc.)

I would agree with all of this!

World BF week is so important because bf rates are low, parents are ill informed, It is seen as hard, If you bf past year your weird. If you point out theat bf babies statistically have better outcomes you are shut down. And the formula companies are rubbing their hands in glee. Trump wanted to go against the who milk marketing regulations and allow promotion of first stage formula. He wanted to have 3rd world countries to support him. (Countries with less excessible clean water and electricity.) This is why BFW is so important.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@GlummyMcGlummerson

Then why hasn't there been an enormous surge after Ashley Grahame, Myleene Klass, April Love Geary, Candice Swanepoel, Millie Mackintosh, Chloe & Lauryn Goodman...and that's just the ones I can remember off the top of my head![/quote]
Because, as you know, it takes more than that. But is suspect your are being obtuse anyway.

Three fundamental things I believe we need to get right before we can expect BF rates to go up:

1. Proper care and support in the immediate aftermath of the birth. A trained midwife working with the mother encouraging her, giving useful practical advice. Not the odd nurse flitting in and out saying "have you tried this"or "Helen does the breastfeeding help but she's off today" and "Just give baby a bottle". And, I can't stress this enough - rest!!! Not kicking mother out 5 minutes after they've been stitched up with barely a backward glance (I'm a big advocate for going back to the 'olden days' when women rested in a peaceful ward for a week, visitors once a day for an hour, including partners, babies taken now and again to give mother a proper rest and a bossy matron ruling the roost).

1. Care in the community for when mum goes home - the cutting of peer supporters and groups has had a devastating effect all over the UK. Having someone on hand to come and help or even just give reassurance down the phone is crucial. Women make life long friends in support groups and it's a nice place to talk with other women who actually understand what they're going through. This helps them carry on.

1. Normalising breastfeeding, in every aspect. We are bombarded with baby bottle images because formula companies have £££ to project those images. We need images of mothers nursing to be normal, to take away the "ick" factor that we have because somewhere along the way people decided breasts were for sex and that using them for their primary purpose is gross. And having a supportive family and partner - not a man who doesn't like his partner feeding because he thinks her "tits" are for him. Friends who don't tell her she'll fail after 10 days. Parents who will encourage mum and perhaps help out with other things while she sits and feeds. Positive reinforcements that breastfeeding is achievable, beneficial and (after the establishment phase) an easy option.

With the third point above, things like world breastfeeding week and soppy Instagram stories fit in. It's not everyone's cup of tea but it causes no harm and if you don't like it then it's not targeted at you, so ignore it rather than trying to put a stop to it.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@GlummyMcGlummerson I dont believe in bragging about natural bodily functions, no. I'm fine with a statement of fact, e.g. recommending best pump, or talking about how it went. But all the smugness is just odd.[/quote]
So can women not talk about their birth experiences? Sounds like you have issues TBH if you don't like hearing about what other women perceive to be their "successes".

This is why BFW is so important.

What is it actually aiming to achieve, aside from som people posting on social media? Is it pushing for actual reform of maternity services? Is it reaching out to women and inspiring them to engage and be honest about the obstacles they faced? People know BFing is best (well for baby, it's not always best for mum, and mum is important too, but that's another matter), it's unfair to suggest that those who don't are ignorant to that and seduced by formula companies advertising, without actually looking into the plethora of reasons why this is the case.

So can women not talk about their birth experiences?

It dorends, if it's one of those women who posts about being superior because they had a natural birth due to their positive mindset then no thanks. Other than that I love hearing birth stories.

So can women not talk about their birth experiences?

Of course they can talk about their birth experiences. What they can't say is it had a natural birth, no painkillers or intervention, natural births at best'. What they can say is it had a natural birth, no pain killers or intervention. It was the best thing for me and it also has X, Y as Z benefits.'

The same way bfing mums are welcome to say 'i breastfeed/fed, it was the best thing for me because of X. It also had the benefits of Y and Z'. This promotes breastfeeding as a good thing and shared the benefits of it without comparing it to FF, and this making FF mums feel inferior by comparison by saying 'breast is best' thus shaming them for not doing what's 'best' for their baby. It presents breastfeeding as a great thing independently.

We can share success and benefits without comparisons that make other people feel shitty.

I am with @GlummyMcGlummerson.

Also, to those saying that what women need is more rest after birth. Sure. Lobby your local councils and NHS to provide this.

The peer support programme was funded by councils, and in most places has been slashed which means that those of us who are trained in this area, and have committed to volunteering in the community, in children's centers and in hospitals don't get to see the women that need help.

There's a medical knowledge gap, where doctors and midwives aren't up to speed with current research, and not all are qualified to help with breastfeeding issues. They certainly can't offer help post-discharge.

Breastfeeding should be celebrated. Women who breastfeed should feel empowered. That's why they should be able to share their stories on social media, and take photos and feel emotional.

And again to those pp who said women in third world countries just crack on, no. They don't. They have villages. Groups of women look after new mothers and their babies. Those women don't need to lift a finger. There are parties and celebrations, and whole communities cook food. There are annual celebrations.

But here in the western world women are silenced, because women who struggled to breastfeed didn't get the support they needed at the time and spoiled their breastfeeding journey. That then meant that it became medically indicated that their babies would need formula.

That's also fine, and women need to be empowered about that too, and about how they made the right choice for them.

But in a country where only 36% of women try breastfeeding after birth, and only 1% of babies are still exclusively breastfed at 6 months (and certainly not a full 35% of those cases were medically indicated) breastfeeding needs publicising. It needs glamorising. It needs to become celebrated and popular so that more women who wouldn't otherwise get community support to breastfeed can get access to that.

I selected yanbu because I'm in the same boat as friend number 2 and find it very upsetting to.hear 'breast is best'. I couldn't even get past a week due to issues, I was medically advised to stop trying. Although as soon as I'd left my full week in the hospital I was left and my upset was ignored. That's another story though.

Anyway my issue isn't with celebrating it, go ahead, i am genuinely happy for those who can breastfeed. But what upsets me is the tone that often comes from those who do. The attitude that formula fed are failures or lazy or just 'didnt try hard enough'.

Wolfgirrrl
But going on about what hard work it is, and all the obstacles you had to overcome etc is surely going to put people off and make things worse?

This is so true. So far today, on this thread alone, we've learned that bf is relentless, painful and tiring, and impossible unless you have a "team of slaves". Sounds great, where do I sign!