To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

When someone announces their pregnancy can you imagine anyone replying “well not everyone can get pregnant” or “not everyone wants children you know”. When someone says they’re running a marathon this woman’s husband doesn’t get snippy because he’s in pain and can barely walk.

I do get this point, no one should be shamed for sharing their personal success with bfing or for spreading awareness about the benefits of it. However i think it's the 'breast is best' thing that gets peoples backs up.

To use your analogy no one say 'pregnancy/children are best' or 'running is best' - people simply share their own stories and successes, possibly give some benefits of what they did. But no one tries to make other people feel like they're lesser by saying 'this is best' thus implying doing any different is less than best. And the shame goes even further here because no one likes to think, or have other people tell them, they're doing less than their best for their baby - especially when there's already so much shaming of mums.

I think the problem lies in the 'breast is best' mantra which by extension shames everyone who doesnt breastfeed. The campaign would be much better promoting breastfeeding, giving all the benefits ect on its own - not trying to compare it to anything else, not (intentionally or not) shaming people who dont bf. Just celebrating bfing as a thing to do it itself - 'breast is great' (or something similar but more catchy) that doesnt imply a comparison like 'best' does

It's exhausting. Just disengage. People should just do what they do and stop shouting about it on social media.

That’s interesting @NotMyTimes. So true when midwives say it’s always ‘breast is best, formula is fine’. Which is 100% true but as a FTM desperate to do the absolute best for your baby ‘fine’ isn’t what your aiming for and can feel very second rate (arguably it is from a medical point of you but actually a very reasonable alternative). I hate the FF/BF minefield as others have said it’s each to their own and so personal!

Agree totally with @Kaiserin

I have had a few similar posts 'feel so grateful & blessed I could do this' blah blah. All swiftly followed by a token 'but whatever works for you' of course I think they forget breastfeeding isnt an achievement. It is a natural bodily function which feeds babies. All mammals do it, it is not unique or special.

I think today's attitudes to breastfeeding are too all or nothing - mums are painted as either squeamish & uneducated, unwilling to even try it before shoving a bottle of formula in their baby's mouth. Or they're the OTT breastfeeding zealots that take endless boob selfies, bang on about it relentlessly, and look upon those who dont breastfeed to at least 2 with pity and scorn.

The reality is we should take the middle path. If a woman wants to breastfeed, it should be taken day by day, and she should be given the best possible support right at the beginning, when it matters.

The vast majority of health benefits of breastfeeding are imparted in the colostrum and the first few months. This would be much more achievable and less daunting than the 'WHO says until 2 years old' mantra. So if 3 months is the aim, if a woman gets to 3 months and stops, great, she has done the main bit. But many will simply carry on because it is free and convenient.

Nextly breastfeeding support groups etc are a load of rubbish. It frankly worries me that if you think baby isnt being fed adequately, you can wait a few days for the next group to roll around. Madness. It encourages you to stretch out the struggle. What women need is a full week in hospital after giving birth with intensive help. If not going to plan after a week, you should be able to sign on for a second week. If it isnt working after a second week, you know you gave it your best and can move on to bottle.

I also think the breastfeeding zealots here are way too puritanical about formula. In countries with high bfing rates (like Sweden), it is common to give the baby the odd bottle of formula so the mum can sleep or rest. Seeing as sleep is crucial to milk production it isnt hard to see why it helps!

That's my view anyway. The zealots need to back off because they are not helping anyone but themselves.

It's so personal - exactly!

breast might be best objectively in that its be shown to be more nutritionally sound in studies ect. However it's not best if the mother is struggling with bfing, baby is losing weight, mother is stressed and her MH suffering and it's making both mum and baby ill. In this case FF is best but having 'breast is best' hounded at the mother will only make her MH worse and make her feel guilty for not doing what's 'best' for her baby.

I think the 'breast is best' matra needs to be dropped and instead the benefits of bfing just be set out independently without comparing it to anything else. With overall focus being there are pros and cons to both in different areas and overall it's the mothers choice. No guilt or shame for anyone, just do what's best for you personally in whatever situation you're in.

In the real world, women all around the globe quietly get on with feeding their babies without needing a big fuss, posting endless selfies of themselves 'boobing' in different places or needing a team of people around them so they can 'self sacrifice' to feed their babies.

This too. I think women in third world countries who just do it without any kind of expectation of praise would be a bit bemused by the fanfare that people make about it these days. Just weird.

I would stay out of it, it's an emotive subject and unless you really fancy a lengthy debate, I wouldn't. Everyone is allowed to feel how they feel about it, I do agree with a PP though that the current throwing slogans and guilt at women obviously isn't working, real support is what is needed to increase BF rates. I also think if every woman was supported, whatever their choice (or if it's out of their hands), then there wouldn't be this stigma, and conversations could be more open without people feeling like they need to go on the defensive. Postnatal care is a shitshow though, so not surprised this isn't the case.

Oh and i forgot to put this in my last post.

Everyone should be able to celebrate however they choose to feed, without being told 'think about people who couldn't do that' but equally they should only be celebrating themselves, not telling anyone else to do, not telling anyone else what is 'best', and not telling anyone else they're 'disappointed' in them that they made a different choice

In the real world, women all around the globe quietly get on with feeding their babies without needing a big fuss, posting endless selfies of themselves 'boobing' in different places or needing a team of people around them so they can 'self sacrifice' to feed their babies.

I think boobing has to be one of the most irritating words, along with the memes often posted with completely made up facts and stats.

@Kaiserin - great post.
I think the idea of 'celebrating' could tip into boasting or gloating, which could seem very judgmental. It is fair for women who have breastfed for extended periods to feel proud of themselves, it can be really hard, it's very tough on your body, it hammers your social life. But gloating and boasting is unnecessary and will undoubtedly make people who were unable to breastfeed feel like shit.

But supporting and celebrating women in breastfeeding is a great thing. It is hard and lonely. My husband was phenomenally supportive - he did so much for me in the first few weeks, bringing me food and water, taking over loads of other stuff 100% , because I was feeding so so much. Having an understanding partner, I think, must be a huge factor in whether women persist with breast feeding. Anything that could be done to help women overcome the structutal problems with breast feeding is to be commended.

I find it really bloody odd that women have to essentially STFU about breastfeeding and the efforts they've gone to and hurdles they've overcome because it makes other women feel bad.

If you feel bad for not cracking breastfeeding then you need to deal with it yourself rather than trying to silence discussions and celebrations around breastfeeding

I wouldn't get between two friends about it.

Having spent my first pregnancy not even being able to mention breastfeeding without having someone laugh and feeling the need to qualify it with "if you can", having spent the first day with my first child having a midwife repeatedly stick him because she wanted proof that me and my 'deep milk ducts' as she called my chest (which I still have no idea WTF she meant) were sufficient and being repeatedly reminded all the other mums were formula feeding so it was okay if I did too, months of being told it's disgusting and being mocked with overdramatic turnaways and chuckles when I fed my child, having previously argued on here that studies where mothers get medical guidance and financial support to breastfeed are great and that those mothers involved aren't heartless for taking part and getting access to that because apparently it only counts if we can do it all on our own...yeah, I can see why so many give up and why others want to celebrate and encourage others. Chanting 'breast is best' does little, but it isn't the cornerstone of why the UK has such shite breastfeeding rates. There are much larger parts of the social structures involved.

When you've got no one fucking else in your corner except maybe your partner, pictures and writing from strangers on the internet doing something you've been shamed for can be a comfort during those painful, trying times. Sure, it's nice not to really care, but everything else to do with babies gets people telling you you're a fuck up from feeding to the colour of their clothes so sure, let people have their fun online celebrating what they're doing.

And yes, people say "'pregnancy is/children are best' and 'running is best'", I've definitely heard both, I've also heard pregnancy/children are the worst and running is the worst. People go to the extremes like that for many things. Feeding babies isn't the only time people get judgemental. It does seem, like many things to do with female anatomy, something that can be difficult that women are expected to shut up about.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

But why does it need to be publicly celebrated? The only person who cares is you.

I think the point about ‘breast is best’ being quite a damaging slogan is an interesting one.

There isn’t soul alive who has contemplated a child that doesn’t know that breastfeeding is designed for babies and is scientifically the best substance you can put in them. As a mother who FF I have had this expressed to me by perfect strangers. On one memorable occasion, it was fairly spat at me by a maniacal woman.

So therefore this phrase does nothing but alienate those who want to but can’t, tried but could not continue, didn’t want to so didn’t, were hindered by tongue tie, weight loss or allergies, those whose nipples were inverted, those whose boobs were so big they smothered their baby, those whose babies were hospitalised and so had to be tube fed etc...

Just because it rhymes, doesn’t mean they need to keep ramming it down everyone’s throats. Everyone knows.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@GlummyMcGlummerson

But why does it need to be publicly celebrated? The only person who cares is you.[/quote]
Because the breastfeeding rates in this country are woefully low, breast feeders don't have the funding of big corporations behind them, and overcoming challenges can be tough. Especially when establishing breastfeeding, women should be commended for the effort they put in to making it work (I will of course get punched in for stating this as so many people seem to think women should STFU when it comes to biology unless it's being used for sexual purposes).

And actually I care about other women's feeding journeys enormously. Many of us do.

Why should it be kept quiet exactly?

@GlummyMcGlummerson

I find it really bloody odd that women have to essentially STFU about breastfeeding and the efforts they've gone to and hurdles they've overcome because it makes other women feel bad.

If you feel bad for not cracking breastfeeding then you need to deal with it yourself rather than trying to silence discussions and celebrations around breastfeeding

Those celebrations and posts don't actually contribute to an increase in rates of breastfeeding, though.

What increases the rates of new Mothers trying to breastfeed is increased support, education and postpartum care for Mothers. We need to fix that rather than just post lovely photos of ourselves celebrating how we did manage to breastfeed without ever attempting to fix the system which makes it harder for new Mothers to be supported and encouraged. Comments like "deal with it yourself" fix nothing and offer nothing.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

But going on about what hard work it is, and all the obstacles you had to overcome etc is surely going to put people off and make things worse?

Breastfeeding rates are higher in societies that dont make such a big deal about it. The enemy isnt a lack of publicity & celebration, it's a lack of practicality.

And actually I care about other women's feeding journeys enormously. Many of us do

If you feel bad for not cracking breastfeeding then you need to deal with it yourself

Caring enormously about other women's journeys probably shouldn't sound like this.

'And actually I care about other women's feeding journeys enormously. Many of us do.'

You really fail to come across that way

[quote Wolfgirrl]@GlummyMcGlummerson

But going on about what hard work it is, and all the obstacles you had to overcome etc is surely going to put people off and make things worse?

Breastfeeding rates are higher in societies that dont make such a big deal about it. The enemy isnt a lack of publicity & celebration, it's a lack of practicality.[/quote]
Do you actually have proof that "BF rates are higher in societies that don't make a big deal about it".

I was a BF peer supporter and women would far rather have honesty and open discussions about the obstacles rather than us pretending it's easy peasy. It may put some off but it mostly prepares them.

Agree with a PP that low rates are due to shockingly inadequate support. I'm no longer a peer supporter because local funding got cut. But there is no harm at all in celebrating BF and the small steps to normalising it include pictures online, inspiring stories, etc. If a woman on the fence sees a post about another woman her age, her situation, happy about breastfeeding then it is inspiring for her. If she sees her fitness and family talking about their breastfeeding stories, that helps encourage it too.

What they mean is that they care about other people who breastfeed, not women in general, especially not those who use formula.

I was a peer supporter, my focus was on women who breastfeed. It's not right for someone to say other women shouldn't talk about it because they themselves didn't succeed. What I mean is their feelings about their own feeding journey shouldn't be pushed to silence other women who had a different journey. I've never met a breastfeeding woman who said other women shouldn't talk about formula feeding. But plenty the other way around.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

You're being a bit patronising if you think a glammed up boob photo is going to make a woman commit to feeding their baby for months/years. It's just self promotion under the guise of 'raising awareness', like a lot of things these days.

People dont choose not to bf because of a lack of photos of other people doing it. They choose not to because it is tiring, because it hurts and they don't like it, because they want help with the night feeds, or they just dont want to be sat in a chair feeding for hours every day when they have other kids to look after etc.

The answer to that is get them rested after the birth & help them crack it before they go home to make it as easy as possible.

Not boob photos or emotional 'humble' brags on Facebook.

@GlummyMcGlummerson but they're not just talking about it are they? They're writing bizarrely emotional self congratulatory nonsense. Not at all helpful. You wouldn't post about how fertile you are compared to other people and how it is 'such a blessing' would you? No, because that would be twatty.

Yet I've never known a formula feeder who wanted to shut down the pro-breastfeeding conversation, only ones who wanted to balance it with a little more insight than "breast is best" because that phrase a) sucks ass and b) is patronising to women who for whatever reason don't/won't/can't. I breastfed both DC, if I'd been able to have more I'd have tried the same again because it was an enjoyable thing, but I also wouldn't assume that it's in any way superior to another woman's choice.

Support has to be far more nuanced, detailed and accessible in order for it to have any impact. As a nation our rates are low because we don't invest our time and money into encouraging and supporting new Mothers sufficiently. That is what our target should be; actively changing the way we behave to ensure the opportunities are there for them to learn about breastfeeding in a way which doesn't induce shame if it doesn't happen for them or if they just plain don't want to.