To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

The aim of the week - everyone can make their own choice between bf and ff and both will give your baby an excellent start in life.

Absolutely Squeekums. I'm fully aware that breastfeeding will need more hands on support. But why is there absolutely nothing for FF?

It's still overwhelming at first, there are still things we could do with knowing that aren't always clear straight away from instructions on a box.

As I said upthread, why when I said I wanted to FF was I passed a leaflet on breastfeeding and told to read that? Where is the leaflet on FF detailing the kinds of things Squeekums just referenced above? I had no idea at first about things like the different flows on the bottle teats etc...

It would actually be incredibly easy to give out some info on FF compared to BF. So why not? Why can't it be both?

Instead it's made to feel like some shameful thing that you have to get on with yourself because the professionals won't even discuss it with you.

How much can you make in advance
Box says don't, it has instructions for preparing.

How do you tell if your feeding too much or enough, how often.
Again formula pack as a guide, a simple search online and you will find a wealth of info.

I had no idea on the range of bottles, hi flow, low flow, different shapes and sizes
Every manufacturer has info on their website.

Cold, room temp or warm
Test on your arm. Body temp preferably. Common sense surely.

Not everyone has the prep machines
They aren't needed, again common sense and the massive amounts of info online as it's all the same.

Unlike bf where it's not standard. You can't just swap to the next test size or feed the baby every 3 hours a set amount.

But why is world breastfeeding week allowed to be taken over by formula feeding? It's not what it's about, ff if you want but don't then make a big song and dance because someone else wants to bf and is proud.
Having a baby is fucking hard work, not being able to have anyone else help you for any length of time because you bf is hard. No one is saying ff is easy, but this is a campaign to celebrate and raise awareness of bf.

I found a book the other day from the late eighties maybe on pregnancy and babies, it had one small, vague paragraph on bf and 2 full, detailed pages on ff. I don't think attitudes have changed that much.

oh fuck offfff to all those moaning about ff rights, its breastfeeding week which is intended to normalise and celebrate BREAST feeding.

yes, we know fed is best and no I am not against formula feeding but give it a rest will you and let those who breastfed be proud of what they did with their bodies, they fucking deserve it. not everything about breastfeeding is intended as a slight against those who didnt or couldnt, get over yourselves.

I don’t think anyone is dismissing breastfeeding week but querying that there isn’t an equivalent week or support for ff. You can be proud whether you bf or ff - it’s not exclusive for one method.

but why would there be an equivalent "week" for formula feeding when normalising breastfeeding is a huge part of it? bottle feeding is the norm, atleast in this country.

I agree there should be less judgement on how someone chooses to feed but I'm not following the support line either. there is instructions on the tub? I have bottles and a tub of formula myself and it is clear as day on there.

@strawberrypip

oh fuck offfff to all those moaning about ff rights, its breastfeeding week which is intended to normalise and celebrate BREAST feeding.

yes, we know fed is best and no I am not against formula feeding but give it a rest will you and let those who breastfed be proud of what they did with their bodies, they fucking deserve it. not everything about breastfeeding is intended as a slight against those who didnt or couldnt, get over yourselves.

Well said!

The NHS already has information on the website on how to safely make up a bottle, as well as a guide to how much to give, and details on different kinds of formula, etc. There's no 'best' formula or 'best' bottle. Some babies will take a bottle cold and others will not. Perfect prep machines are not recommended by the NHS (insufficient evidence of safety).

Whereas there are so many elements involved in breastfeeding that in-person support is often the only way to resolve issues which can arise in the mother-baby dyad (latch, positioning, tongue or lip ties, etc).

So again I ask, why was I given (and not that long ago either) information on breastfeeding when I'd stated I wanted to FF? Why have people on this thread been told by health professionals that they won't discuss FF or answer questions new mothers have, why did a PP have to find out where to warm bottles up herself in the hospital because no one would show her?

Yes BF needs a tonne more hands on support for those who want to do it, I am not denying that at all. But it is quite evidently the 'chosen' method by professionals and all the above does is make people who make a different choice feel like they are wrong for doing so.

It shouldn't be rammed down your throat once you've already said you don't want to do it, you should be able to ask a question about FF and have it answered in the same way you could about BF. You should feel supporting by professionals in the decision you've made for yourself and not like it's some dirty, shameful thing that they won't even discuss or take seriously.

And no one has said they make a song and dance about formula feeding? Or even that they need to celebrate it? Or that BF mother's can't be proud? Literally no one has said that. All posters like myself have said is that there should also be support for people who choose not to BF.

Why, if I have a question about bottle feeding after giving birth, should I not be able to ask and receive an answer or be pointed in the right direction by professionals?

It’s true: BF is a lot harder so TBH I do understand why women want to celebrate it.

I found it a total PITA and the benefits in the western world, on an individual level, weren’t worth it for me. It’s no wonder, about 50 years ago onwards, FF became the norm in the UK. Women have become used to freedom afforded them by increased emancipation. Many couldn’t afford to be (and probably didn’t want to be) curtailed by (in some cases) breastfeeding their newborn being one of the only things they can fit into their day.

I couldn’t believe how limiting it was and I hated every second.

'I couldn't believe how limiting it was'

Personally, I love the freedom that breastfeeding brings. I don't have to think or plan in advance when I go out. I am not limited to the baby's feeding requirements. I pack a nappy and off i go. I don't have to get up half asleep to sort bottles for feeding baby. I don't need to worry about sterilizing or temperatures. And when I was on holiday and there was an overnight power failure, I didn't need to be stressed. I would feel limited having to bottle feed.

@Somethingsnappy it’s such a shame you feel that easy about formula feeding. It has many advantages: for example, both you and your husband and partner can be equally involved in bonding with your baby through feeding.

I mean, if you could - why wouldn’t you?

feel that way*.

Piglet, there are certainly some advantages to FF. But sometimes I do worry about mothers to be reading these threads and getting put off by some of the things they read. I wanted to offer the alternative viewpoint. It's often put this way, and I agree....breastfeeding starts off more difficult than using formula, but if women manage to get to about the six week mark, it gets so much easier and eventually becomes easier than FF.

P.s. I did appreciate your last comment!

Ff is easy as it doesn’t rest with just the mother.

My wonderful DMil flew over for the first six weeks (thank goodness Canadian teachers get long summer holidays). She did the night feeds and visiting friends and family were keen to offer to help out with feeds. Nowadays new parents have the advantage of a Perfect Prep.

P.p.s. there are so many other lovely ways to bond with baby, besides feeding. I actually used to feel envious of my husband, when in the early days while BF was still quite difficult, he got all the gorgeous sleepy cuddles after baby had finished feeding!

@Somethingsnappy yes I think that must be the case for many women around the 6 week mark as I have heard it often.

I do think also that NCT could do a much better job of managing expectations regarding how breastfeeding can be hard so people are prepared. I wasn’t at all prepared. I think what may have happened is that the NHS has an aim of increasing U.K. BF rates and so MWs, HVs Etc really gloss over the shit bits for fear of putting people off. But for me, knowing about those would have helped.

Also, as some have said upthread, MWs really need to get with the programme on tongue tie. None of the MWs I dealt with had a clue my son was tongue tied but BF consultant spotted it right away. But too late - I had already given too much formula and I couldn’t re establish BF.

NCT and other ante natal classes, I should say.

@Kaiserin

I'd say YANBU because the current breastfeeding dogma is massively counterproductive: it creates undue pressure, guilt, unrealistic expectations, ... which all contribute to low breastfeeding rates in the long run, and poorly fed babies in the short run (when new mums desperately try, struggle, get excessively stressed, blame themselves, keep trying... and make themselves and their babies sick as a result)

Facts: (didn't check recently, but fairly sure that hasn't changed)

1. most women in the UK plan to breastfeed from day one
2. by 3 months, most babies in the UK are no longer significantly breastfed

No amount of chanting "breast is best" will change this. This approach is not working.
If people were serious about encouraging breastfeeding, they would try to identify the systemic obstacles which prevent it. I'd bet it starts in the postnatal wards from hell. And is made worse by the pathetically low numbers of fathers who take more than 2 weeks of parental leave. And the fact their extended family now often lives far away.

The bottom line is that breastfeeding women are absolutely not physically supported. Then don't need leaflets or slogans. They need expert practical advice, and rest, and plenty of food, so that they can be in top shape, establish feeding early, and sustain it. In practice they need "slaves" (kind relatives) around the house to look after them, and handle all the chores, and keep an eye on the baby while they get some sleep...
Some lucky superladies may manage without all this, but for most... This is why breastfeeding fails. Not enough genuine support that matters.
THIS is what people should be talking about during breastfeeding week (that, and mastitis, and scabbed nipples... and nipples shields, and breast pumps... and tongue tie, and how to tell from the colour of your newborn's poo whether they're getting adequate nutrition or not... and whether you should even bother with breastfeeding bras and breast pads, or just wear baggy t-shirts and change them every few hours, etc., etc.)

YES!!! this times a million, this is exactly what I think but haven’t been able to articulate. thankyou. it’s not all about shouting out about the benefits, everybody knows them. Real actual support that matters is where we fail as a society.

I totally agree with that, Piglet. The picture painted needs to be realistic and if women are fully informed, they can make an informed decision and be better prepared to deal with the challenges. The same goes for providing information about natural newborn behaviour. Parents will have more confidence in their own abilities for example, if they understand that a baby wanting to feed or be held all the time, is not a sign that something is 'wrong'. Women do not need to be protected from the information! It is rather insulting actually to think that we do.

Personally, I love the freedom that breastfeeding brings. I don't have to think or plan in advance when I go out. I am not limited to the baby's feeding requirements. I pack a nappy and off i go. I don't have to get up half asleep to sort bottles for feeding baby. I don't need to worry about sterilizing or temperatures. And when I was on holiday and there was an overnight power failure, I didn't need to be stressed. I would feel limited having to bottle feed.

Same here! The ease of just popping out without a massive bag in tow or going long distances without worrying if I packed enough milk. We’ve gone all over Europe and to the States with our sons on very little luggage because of not having that extra stuff to account for and lug around. I don’t drive so it was a massive plus not to have that extra hassle. It was what worked best for my/our lifestyle.

Do women expect to be served all the information they need in leaflet form at antenatal classes? When I was first pregnant, I did a lot of reading myself - of books and articles and blog posts and videos - so I knew what to expect from the birth and from breastfeeding. There's such a wealth of information out there, it's hardly surprising that it doesn't fit into a leaflet.

@AlmostAlwyn because the NHS bills BF as “natural”, the message women hear, subliminally or otherwise, is “This is easy”. So that doesn’t really encourage you to read further because you think “OK, they’ve told me how to do it, I know the different positions now, I’ll get on with it when my baby comes”.

I simply did not know about the magic 6 week mark when it gets easier because nobody warned me at NCT.

And having paid over £300 for the course: yeah, I definitely do expect to be given all the facts and be warned about the pitfalls. I’ve never had a baby before; does that seem an unreasonable expectation for that rather outrageous cost?

Don’t be daft, of course it isn’t.

Over £500 I spent overall trying to ensure I was prepared to BF.

Damn straight I feel fucking cheated it didn’t work out.

I wish there was more awareness of tongue tie and latching difficulties that perseverance simply does not fix. I tried my best to exclusively pump, exhausting myself for 6 and a half months until my supply dropped to a trickle. I found breastfeeding week really really upsetting. Because there wasnt any acknowledgment of pumping mothers, or tongue tie, any acknowledgement that some of us try really really fucking hard to directly breastfeed and it cant happen.