To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

@MitziK

The poster I replied to said she was very intelligent, which was why she knew best that FF was best for her.

That was me and it’s not what I said. The point I was making is that I am informed and intelligent - I know about BF and the fact that I wanted to try it. I don’t need to be told about the benefits of BF via WBW or any other SM means. I know them and they were drummed into me at NCT.

But no amount of being intelligent or informed could help me when my baby couldn’t latch and was screaming the house down. So I gave him formula. There was no practical support available when I needed it to help me. I wasn’t going to let my baby continue screaming or starve or dehydrate in soaring August heat. So I gave him formula. That was the beginning of the end of my BF “journey”.

Totally @AnneLovesGilbert the fed is best mantra is actually embarrassing....important things don't work out all the time, feelings get hurt, but its pathetic that we are forced to believe something that is scientifically untrue by women to save other women’s feelings. Formula is more than adequate but it's not best.

The support is abysmal though, 2 midwives told me my DC didn't have tongue tie..i even came on here and had people telling only on MN did people’s babies have tongue ties 🙄. Anyway turns out my HV team had BF specialist. MW never thought to mention it. She was amazing, diagnosed tt got it sorted and went from horrific to a doddle within a week.

Fed is best.

I was totally prepared to bottle feed, had a sterliser and the bottles all ready to go. But was very lucky and found breastfeeding so bloody easy, meanwhile a nurse from the prenantal group who had her son on the same day struggled horrendously to get him to feed and had to give up.

Our kids went to the same school, same class and 18 years later both kids are healthy and happy. Both kids did well at school, both are following their chosen careers and doing well. What more could us parents want.

If you can breast feed, great! If you can't then fortunately your child will thrive just as well.

Again, weird conversation. It seems that any statement of the fact that breast feeding is correlated to better health outcomes for both mother and baby is seen as a personal attack by women who have chosen not to. People seem more testy about this than statements about other dietary guidelines or alcohol consumption guidelines.

When you are really sensitive and defensive about something, it's a strong signal.

@EmpressoftheMundane

For me it isnt the fact breastfeeding is 'better' that annoys me, it is the fact people are misleading about how much better, and therefore whether it is worth the anguish it can cause.

Again, weird conversation. It seems that any statement of the fact that breast feeding is correlated to better health outcomes for both mother and baby is seen as a personal attack by women who have chosen not to.

The problem is this isn't the statement of fact that is spread. Instead 'breast is best' is chanted repeatedly. And whilst no one can deny that it is correlated to better health outcomes on a national level, no one seems to be willing to concede that although breast might objectively be 'best'. It's not best if the mother is struggling, baby is losing weight, it's causing a massive strain on her MH and also bad for baby to have a stressed out upset mother.

It's be much better to say 'breastfeeding is fantastic, it has all these benefits (X,Y and Z)'. This way you promote breastfeeding without using the comparative of 'best' which for 1. Is entirely objective, best overall is different in different situation and 2. Ends up shaming mothers who FF by saying they're not doing what's best for their baby

If you can breastfeed then that’s best. If you can’t then you do the next best thing which is formula. Nobody has to feel bad as long as they’ve done the best they could. But people can’t complain and feel upset because someone else was able to do something they couldn’t. There are many people who’ve achieved things I wanted but couldn’t have, and I don’t go around hating on them.

@stretchedmarks
Absolutely brilliant post

How do you strike that balance? If a woman (let's just say of a lower educational level) is asked by the midwife how she wants to feed the baby and she says 'bottle feeding' then she has given her answer hasn't she? Should the midwives then say 'ah but have you considered breastfeeding, here are all the benefits...'

Yes she has and thats where questioning should end.
You dont walk into a maternity ward WITHOUT seeing BF everywhere. Someone who is interested will ask or make mention of a poster or pamphlet
I saw so many BF posters and info sheets, NEVER once a FF one, so from the first day you walk in there you are bombarded with only 1 type of feeding

@Glamazoni - I don't think the issue is jealousy of women who can and do breastfeed (although I'm sure it happens). It's the often smug, self-congratulatory and judgemental comments from some breastfeeding mothers that annoy people and plenty of those have been given just on this thread. Making breastfeeding an exclusive, bitchy club is not going to improve breastfeeding rates either

2 months of breastfeeding is generous. Do people really expect other mothers who breastfeeding until they are two years old? A few months of breastfeeding is the norm. I think you should stay neutral and your friend was out of line for saying she's dissapointed in you giving up breastfeeding after two months.

@Glamazoni

as long as they’ve done the best they could.

I think that goes to the heart of the issue, really. “The best they could” is different for different women, because each woman’s tolerance for pain (emotional and physical) and inconvenience is different. So you get people like @RoseLillian who go to absolutely extreme lengths to breastfeed through really severe adversity and may judge other women for giving up after a week “just” because of latch problems. So qualification of “as long as they’ve done the best they could” is unhelpful too.

I’m always bemused by the pro choice, bodily-autonomy-at-all-costs bent on this site - until you give birth and have some feeding choices to make, that is. Then there’s some very anti-choice behaviour from some.

So: fine to get rid of a life, but not fine to give your baby some formula unless you’ve “done the best you could.” Ridiculous.

@MrsGoggings85

Totally *@AnneLovesGilbert* the fed is best mantra is actually embarrassing....important things don't work out all the time, feelings get hurt, but its pathetic that we are forced to believe something that is scientifically untrue by women to save other women’s feelings. Formula is more than adequate but it's not best.

The support is abysmal though, 2 midwives told me my DC didn't have tongue tie..i even came on here and had people telling only on MN did people’s babies have tongue ties 🙄. Anyway turns out my HV team had BF specialist. MW never thought to mention it. She was amazing, diagnosed tt got it sorted and went from horrific to a doddle within a week.

It's not embarrasing in the slightest. It's an incredibly kind and inclusive way of explaining that it doesn't matter how you choose to feed your baby- both are fine.

You're minimisng the feelings of formula feeding mums by saying that their chosen method is barely above 'adequate' (which is what you actually mean). I don't think many of us would feel particularly happy being called 'adequate', especially when it's not the case. I'd much rather feed formula, be in amazing shape MH wise and be a great mum who has time and energy for her babies, than depressed, stressed and sore for the sake of slightly more nutritional value. And yes, I'm aware for a lot of BF mums it is a 'doddle', but the chances of having absolutely no struggles at all? Slim to none.

And those hurt feelings you make reference to? More often than not they start the downhill spiral into postnatal depression. So don't be so bloody dismissive.

So, yes.

Fed is best

What is classed as ‘doing the best you could “?

Actually “fed is best” is a pathetic slogan. Fed is the bare bloody minimum you have to do, babies need to be fed 🙄 It shuts down any conversation from a mum who wanted to BF and couldn’t, and completely dismisses her personal struggle and intentions because ‘fed is best, so why do you care what milk it is? Why did/are you trying so hard?’ Utter utter bullshit. I’m FF my daughter against all of my intentions and wishes, after a horrible 8 weeks of shit breastfeeding. Am I glad she has a safe milk so she can grow and thrive? Yes. Do I wish we had had better advice and support so we could have carried on BF? Absolutely.

Fed is best is such a fucking cop out.

So, if a mother can BF, why wouldn’t she? (And by can, I mean she has the emotional, social and economic support to do so

Because. I. Didn't. Want. To.

Is that okay with you? There is such a double standard on here and in RL surrounding body autonomy for women... Except when it comes to how you feed your child.

It's absolutely not okay to suggest a woman shouldn't have a choice over whether she carries a baby to term or not but it's fine to shame her for not using her breasts in the way you think she should. It's contradictory and absolutely goes against everything feminism and body autonomy stands for, to me.

And all this nonsense that there is not enough information on breastfeeding available... Really? Have you ever been in a maternity ward, had a midwife appointment or visited an antenatal clinic? It's the only type of feeding they discuss! The only information I received, the only leaflets and posters and booklets I was handed were relating to breastfeeding.

When I said I wanted to FF I was questioned on why? Did I know the benefits though? I should read X,Y and Z before making a decision etc etc... And you know, none of it changed my mind because I know that for me it would not have been the best decision, for my mental health and my wellbeing I did not want to do it and as per PP, the absolute minimal health benefits of BF did not outweigh the potential negatives to my health and therefore my baby, for me.

No midwife, doctor or Mumsnet poster gets to judge me for that, I don't judge you for breastfeeding. I never make comments that are derogatory toward BF mother's, ever. In fact, I really don't care which way you feed your children or why you made those choices. I assume they were the best for you at the time and good for you. Please allow me the same courtesy.

The support should be available for both types of feeding and given when the mother decides which is best for her situation. One form of feeding, which doesn't work for all, should not be rammed down anyone's throat. Once I'd decided to FF, I should have been offered support in relation to that. Why wasn't I offered a leaflet on formula feeding once I'd clearly stated that's what I wanted to do? Why is giving only one form of support and information appropriate?

Maybe we should have a World Formula Feeding Week where FF mother's can get support and information and not feel judged.

@OrangeSlices998

Actually “fed is best” is a pathetic slogan. Fed is the bare bloody minimum you have to do, babies need to be fed 🙄 It shuts down any conversation from a mum who wanted to BF and couldn’t, and completely dismisses her personal struggle and intentions because ‘fed is best, so why do you care what milk it is? Why did/are you trying so hard?’ Utter utter bullshit. I’m FF my daughter against all of my intentions and wishes, after a horrible 8 weeks of shit breastfeeding. Am I glad she has a safe milk so she can grow and thrive? Yes. Do I wish we had had better advice and support so we could have carried on BF? Absolutely.

Fed is best is such a fucking cop out.

It doesn't. What would you rather say? Breast is better than anything else (and because you couldn't and you're formula feeding you're now part of the failure mum club)? At least fed is best is mutually supportive for everyone because both feeding methods have their pros and cons, their easy parts and tough bits.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, but you don't need to shit over the mums who actively chose to FF from the get go. You're making out as if formula is such a second rate option. And it isn't. Formula feeding mums are entitled to be a part of the conversation, not just mums in your situation. Feeding discussion isn't an exclusive club for the breastfeeding mummy brigade. 'Fed is best' is positive language which invites all mothers to verbalise their struggles with feeding. 'Breast is best' alienates most mothers in the UK and takes away women's choices and empowerment to make the right decision for them. You're essentially saying "you chose the lazy, easy option so you don't need to talk about it, go away".

Fed is best. And I'll never stop defending that.

@OrangeSlices998

Actually “fed is best” is a pathetic slogan. Fed is the bare bloody minimum you have to do, babies need to be fed 🙄 It shuts down any conversation from a mum who wanted to BF and couldn’t, and completely dismisses her personal struggle and intentions because ‘fed is best, so why do you care what milk it is? Why did/are you trying so hard?’ Utter utter bullshit. I’m FF my daughter against all of my intentions and wishes, after a horrible 8 weeks of shit breastfeeding. Am I glad she has a safe milk so she can grow and thrive? Yes. Do I wish we had had better advice and support so we could have carried on BF? Absolutely.

Fed is best is such a fucking cop out.

As a mother who also didn’t manage to bf successfully, I totally disagree. I don’t see how “fed is best” minimises my experience, and nor do I agree with referring to formula feeding as the “bare bloody minimum”.

“Fed is best” is a silly phrase but it’s a reaction to the unhelpful “breast is best”

Support should be readily available for both bf and ff and everyone should accept that your preferred choice might not be the same as someone else’s. Neither are wrong - either provide an amazing start in life.

What needs to happen is that those who wanted to bf and couldn’t, do not then see themselves as a failure or that formula is second best.

Perhaps it was easier for me as I proactively chose formula, so no guilt or failure.

Whatever you choose, your baby will be loved and have an excellent start in life.

I’m not shitting over formula feeding/formula/mothers who FF, give over like you’re a shamed member of society. I never said it was poison, or horrific, just that I didn’t want to use it. It’s that simple. To you, that makes no sense because you believe fed it best. I don’t believe that it’s as simple as that, or I wouldn’t still feel the way I do about our feeding journey months down the line. I will stand by my assertion that all that phrase does is dismiss and belittle the effort lots of women put into trying to establish breastfeeding, often without much effective support, especially during this pandemic where so much face to face support couldn’t be provided where it was needed. Why can’t I think breast milk/breastfeeding is important? Why is it necessary to centre the feelings of someone who chose to FF, in a conversation about breastfeeding?

By saying I don’t agree with fed is best and think it’s harmful doesn’t mean I think breast is best is any better. I don’t. Having worked on maternity care, and now having had my own shit time of it, I know that many women stop BF for reasons entirely unrelated to whether they think breast milk is best and so simply harping on about the benefits won’t change that.

I am not for one second saying FF mothers, of which I am one, don’t deserve support or that they’re lazy. Don’t put words in my mouth.

‘Breast is best’ is a very problematic slogan. ‘Fed is best’ is just silly. We need to move away from both of these.

The NHS has pushed the breast is best message without sufficient support for bfing, and without acknowledging the cultural/societal barriers to establishing bfing in the UK. Setting new mothers up to fail like this is totally unacceptable.

All efforts and resources should go into support services for those who want to feed. But no need to keep banging on about the health benefits or trying persuade those who don’t.

Then I’d also like to see more normalisation of feeding in public and past infant hood, again aimed at those who want to. Perhaps that should be the role of WBFW.

Our feeding experiences are really personal to us and trigger all sorts of feelings and emotions so I respect I don’t speak for you and how you feel about the phrase. However from my own experience and working with new mothers I know I’m not alone in finding the phrase fed is best unhelpful and dismissive. I never said formula is the bare bloody minimum, I said feeding the baby is the bare minimum you have to do! Put food in! Whether that’s BF, expressing EBM to be given, using donor breast milk, or using formula. Or perhaps a combination of the above. You have to give the baby something, fed is not best fed is required.

I feel, having had ‘fed is best’ said to me over the last few months, it just dismisses a) how I feel about not succeeding at BF and b) implies the tears and energy I put into trying to succeed were a waste because the only thing that matters is that the baby has has milk. Yes the baby needs food but why is that as far as I’m allowed to care?

@OrangeSlices998

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm fully aware of the emotional and nutritional benefits to bf, and why mothers are so upset if it doesn't work out. Just because I chose to ff doesn't make me incapable of understanding that or stupid.

And, without being harsh, everyone who gave birth in this pandemic had fuck all support. I have a 12 week old, who was born in the peak, who was born with medical issues, so I had no support in the ward post partum and constant hospital appointments after discharge. It wasn't just you, so you'd do well to stop placing your struggle as beyond anyone else's. But I'm just a feeble formula feeder. Why would I need support in any capacity?

Oh, and the discussion is feeding. Not just breastfeeding. It's incredibly harmful to alienate more than half of the population from discussing their own personal feeding struggles because breastfeeding has to be the be all and end all of all discussion, every bloody time.

It really isn't about the whole 'breast is best' thing to me, although I agree with PP that I think the 'best' element is hugely exaggerated when it's applied to different people's individual situations and I can understand why the chanting of the phrase can make FF mother's feel like a failure, especially if they tried to BF and couldn't continue.

It's the whole 'if you could, why wouldn't you?' bollocks, I do not need to explain myself to you... and the fact that, ime, it is pushed so heavily by the professionals that you do end up feeling like a second rate mother if you decide against BF.

I really don't think that anyone should have their decision questioned. By anyone. By all means give out the information on both and allow a mother to come to her own decision without any guilt tripping from either side.

It should be 'here is the info for both, let us know what you want to do'. Once a mother has decided, support should be given for whatever that choice is. Not 'why though?', 'X choice is so much better though', 'Oh well we can't discuss that option' and so on...

Let's credit mother's with the ability to make their own choices which they feel are best for them and their children without the need for constant harping on about what someone else considers better for them.

@LaurieMarlow - support (although insufficient in some parts of the country) is given for bf, why not equivalent support for those you choose to ff?