To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

[quote stretchedmarks]@OrangeSlices998

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm fully aware of the emotional and nutritional benefits to bf, and why mothers are so upset if it doesn't work out. Just because I chose to ff doesn't make me incapable of understanding that or stupid.

And, without being harsh, everyone who gave birth in this pandemic had fuck all support. I have a 12 week old, who was born in the peak, who was born with medical issues, so I had no support in the ward post partum and constant hospital appointments after discharge. It wasn't just you, so you'd do well to stop placing your struggle as beyond anyone else's. But I'm just a feeble formula feeder. Why would I need support in any capacity?

Oh, and the discussion is feeding. Not just breastfeeding. It's incredibly harmful to alienate more than half of the population from discussing their own personal feeding struggles because breastfeeding has to be the be all and end all of all discussion, every bloody time.[/quote]
And again you’re putting words in my mouth, I don’t know what you want me to say. That I think you’re a shameful, awful mother because you didn’t breastfeed and you didn’t deserve a single second of support or care postnatally because you weren’t breastfeeding? Categorically NOT what I’m saying.

I also never said you were stupid or incapable of understanding others experiences.

All I can do is speak from my own experience which is different to yours, and which contradicts your belief fed is best. I don’t know how to explain it any other way than I have why I find the phrase problematic - I (and I emphasise I) feel it oversimplifies a complicated and emotional situation around feeding.

Breast is best is also AWFUL, before you assume I think that’s any better. Why feeding has to be minimised into little catchphrases I don’t know.

For the record, I know everyone’s care during the pandemic has been awful. I have had friends self discharge post CS from hospital because their care was terrible. My PND was missed and dismissed because so much was done over the phone. I’m not saying that only BF mums needed support or that FF mums don’t deserve it.

The NHS has pushed the breast is best message without sufficient support for bfing
I experienced this first hand. I was strongly encouraged to breastfeed, then when I said Ok you’ve sold it to me - how do I do it? They said We don’t have the funding to tell you that. Our breastfeeding course has been cancelled and our lactation consultants have been made redundant. So what was the point of pushing that message when there was zero support to actually achieve it?

They sent me to a breastfeeding cafe for mums. I felt silly turning up with no baby, and of course if I’d waited until after giving birth it would be too late because breastfeeding needs to be initiated literally at birth, so you need the information before you go into labour. The cafe wasn’t helpful because it relied on other mums making an effort to educate me, which of course they didn’t, because they were there for a cup of tea and a chat with their friends. The nurses in hospital knew virtually nothing about breastfeeding either.

[quote Parker231]@LaurieMarlow - support (although insufficient in some parts of the country) is given for bf, why not equivalent support for those you choose to ff?[/quote]
Exactly.

Why when I said 'no, I want to FF' was I handed a load of booklets on breastfeeding and told to 'just read them before making up my mind'.

I'd made up my mind. I wanted to FF. Where was the support for that? Where were the leaflets and booklets on that?

Why is only one form of support advocated for?

support (although insufficient in some parts of the country) is given for bf, why not equivalent support for those you choose to ff?

Support for FF should absolutely be given. It’s ridiculous that it isn’t. Especially given that good FF support doesn’t require anything like the degree of resource of bfing support.

"Maybe we should have a World Formula Feeding Week where FF mother's can get support and information"

I bet Nestle would be right on board with that.

Why does the “World Week” have to be one or the other - why not jointly celebrate both bf and ff? Both are excellent and we should celebrate being able to feed our babies so well at the start of their lives.

@LaurieMarlow

support (although insufficient in some parts of the country) is given for bf, why not equivalent support for those you choose to ff?

Support for FF should absolutely be given. It’s ridiculous that it isn’t. Especially given that good FF support doesn’t require anything like the degree of resource of bfing support.

Formula comes with instructions, all equipment comes with instructions, there is even the perfect prep machine to make bottles, endless info available everywhere- what more is needed for ff?

There is also huge amounts of information available on bf?

There is also huge amounts of information available on bf?

Bfing support needs to be tailored to the individual situation. There are many physical issues around latching, supply, let down, positioning, breast size, etc.

Whereas making up formula is much more straightforward.

That’s not to say it shouldn’t be covered, it absolutely should. But training someone to support bottle feeding is infinitely easier than training someone to support bfing.

Yes @Parker231 but it's more in-depth when you do need support than pop a bottle in the baby's mouth. Excluding any medical issues which can affect either way.

You also don't have nearly as much judgement or unhelpful comments when ff. even GPs push ff.

Ultimately, the issues with having these celebrationary weeks, as great as they are, is that they're a huge cop out for the NHS (it's just enough support for them to claim that they are doing enough, but without any financial investment).

The whole maternity care system needs an overhaul from the bottom up. I never understood why we have so much pre-natal care (not including scans, more baby classes and the like) and fuck all after the baby is born. It makes absolutely no sense. I remember going to baby classes when I was pregnant with DD1 and while it was super interesting learning about the baby in the womb... did that help me at all when I had a newborn with severe jaundice and I was recovering from a c section? No.

Maternity wards are absolute hell holes. It boggles my mind that we still cram 6 or more women into a relatively small room with at least the same number of babies and nothing more than a paper curtain for privacy. Maternity wards breed depression and anxiety, even with the best team of midwives. And, let's be honest, there are far too many midwives still working that should have been managed out of the profession a very long time ago. Some of them can be really quite nasty and dismissive.

10 days for a midwife discharge date is still far too soon, and health visitors more often than not, are either unapproachable or don't have the correct information at hand. I had an amazing HV the first time round, but my current one I couldn't find more patronising. I'd probably rather walk over hot coals than ask her for help.

It's also nigh on impossible to get counselling if you have a traumatic birth, or additional support without being made to feel like a failure. I broke down at DD2's booking appointment due to the hell that was DD1's birth. I didn't get a debrief until I was 30 weeks, so I spent most of my pregnancy with heightened anxiety.

The standard of care at the most basic level should involve-

• hospitals actually discussing all birth options at a pre-natal appointment, with a tour as standard to allay anxiety
• individual rooms so mothers can bond with babies, catch up on sleep and figure out the ins and outs of feeding in complete privacy
• properly staffed maternity wards and midwife led units
• a dedicated feeding team who go around and based on your chosen option, give you a run down on how to do it safely
• follow up support with feeding, if needed, for the coming days, weeks and months. Making things like diagnosing and snipping tongue tie a same day affair, rather than a 3 plus week long wait at best
• accessible and available counselling sessions for those who have a traumatic birth to help combat PND before it sets in
• longer contact time with midwives post-natally
• health visitors who are constantly kept up to speed on the latest developments

I think if all of that happened, you'd have a huge surge in successful breastfeeding rates, and all mothers would feel much more supported. That really would be something to celebrate.

(Also, a bit of a side note, but I also wish women would stop minimising other women's struggles due to their beliefs that usually centre around 'well I struggled and didn't need all this extra help, grow some resilience'. We are a rich country with the ability to properly fund pre and post natal care. We don't need to just accept second best because it's been that way for years).

There needs to be more support for all new parents regardless of how they decide to feed their babies. Funding should be for both bf and ff. I decided to ff from day one and don’t regret that but even 20 years ago you were very much left to work things out yourself.

@stretchedmarks absolutely. NHS maternity wards are a disgrace.

But the Health Secretary is a man (and a demonstrably stupid man, at that). Why should he care?

All new mothers need support and their decisions respected, however they choose to feed their babies. But the fact remains that breastfeeding is usually a good deal more difficult than using formula. Reflected in the very high numbers of women who want to breastfeed but are unable to continue, leading to very low numbers in the UK who achieve their wishes and aims. This is why the push for good support for BF came about, and why there does need to be more support available than for FF. I've never heard of anyone who started out wanting to FF and was unable to continue due to difficulties or lack of support.
However, choices need to be respected and kind support offered, no matter what. Mothers who use formula still often need advice and info on responsive feeding and newborn behaviour etc and most definitely should not be ignored. On a good note, this is why the NCT, for example, have changed their telephone helpline from the breastfeeding helpline, to the infant feeding helpline.

Read a post on another site that parents who use formula don’t need support and help with feeding but help to manage their guilt!!!!

Yes, I would imagine that kind of support would be very helpful to many mothers actually!

The way the post was written was that if you didn’t bf you must feel guilty with no acknowledgement that ff may have been a choice (as in my cases).

'The way the post was written was that if you didn’t bf you must feel guilty with no acknowledgement that ff may have been a choice (as in my cases).'

Absolutely bonkers isn't it?

Luckily our fantastic HV was a font of knowledge.

She pointed out I had the wrong flow teat on bottle....

I hadn't realised there were different sizes

I'm straight down the middle too! It's wonderful your friend managed to have a successful breastfeeding journey and who is anyone to take that pride away from her? Your other friend, I have complete empathy for as I tried so hard but it wasn't to be and in all honesty I've felt a little jealous of others but that's my bad! It's neither of their fault that the other is put out, nor are their choices any of each others business. You could support each friend without discussing the other, or just leave them to it?!

This is basically a difference of opinion about where to get lunch 🙄. In 10 years time it will be forgotten about.

@FrootTheLoot

Because. I. Didn't. Want. To.

Is that okay with you?

Of course it’s okay with me. Your body, your baby, your choice. Hardly a scandal, but nothing to celebrate either.

Hardly a scandal, but nothing to celebrate either

Sorry can you point me to where I said it was?

I was referring to the 'why wouldn't you if you could' shit as if anyone owes you an explanation as to what they do with their breasts.

And no it isn't anything to celebrate, because I'm just feeding my baby... Like everyone does. I have no need to make a song and dance about it.

Formula comes with instructions, all equipment comes with instructions, there is even the perfect prep machine to make bottles, endless info available everywhere- what more is needed for ff?
How much can you make in advance
How do you tell if your feeding too much or enough, how often.
I had no idea on the range of bottles, hi flow, low flow, different shapes and sizes
Cold, room temp or warm
Not everyone has the prep machines

Literally survey women who FF on our biggest questions when starting, put the proper research in tando answer it, put it in an info pack. That, just like bf info is given at the hospital. It is much easier to get FF info out there, it's just refused so we turn to online and have to hope we get the right info
They wouldn't even show me where I could warm formula in the hospital, shit like that needs to change. My friend found the communal kitchen, kettle and jug to fill with hot water and get boiled water to cool for dd bottles.

Encouraging those who wish to breastfeed to do so and normalising this as being OK in public should be the aims of the week, surely?