For not wanting to see this child ever again?

[justchecking80]

Today son (6yo) and I met acquaintance mum and her child (4yo) for lunch and play in the park. We are both in a larger group due to go on holiday with kids later in August and mum approached me asking for a playdate so the kids "can get to know each other".
This child is "difficult" and prone to aggressive behaviour and tantrums. We've been out with them a couple of time and child has been very physical, in one instance even wrapping his arm around my son's neck.

Anyway, we met for lunch and things went ok, although towards the end child decided he wanted to lay down on his and son's chair so my son had to stand up while his mum was finishing her meal. Also, at one point the child started screaming extremely loudly with people staring at us.
We then went to the park where child has been:

• throwing sand on my son, aiming to his face
• being disobedient and totally disregarding what his mum was asking him to do/not to do
• invited my son to a race with their scooters, resulting in me and mum losing sight of them for a good 10 minutes, I've never once lost my son before. During this time my son got slightly injured falling from the swing while child was pushing.
• throwing gravel stones at me and my son, and carrying on after his mum asked him to stop
• at the end of the playdate, we were due to leave and by now I was looking forward to it to catch the train home and after I asked the child to return my son's scooter because we needed to run for the train he decided to run away with it while his mum chasing him for a good 10 minute, resulting in us actually missing the train
• when we finally got hold of them (mum was still trying to take the scooter out of child' hands) I told the child he was being naughty and he replied I am a stinky poop
• we then left mum and child behind to try to get the train child was having a meltdown anyway but after realising that was too late we slowed down our pace, resulting in mum and child catching up with us and having to walk together while child kept calling me stinky poop for several times ignoring him mum's plea to stop.

AIBU for not wanting to meet this child ever again and now dreading to have to spend a week with them in August?

I would be grateful that 4yo wasn't mine. Kids are hard work.
Try not to hold a grudge forever, OP.

I wouldn’t go OP, everyone will be miserable and it’s not worth it. I’ve turned down a few holidays with my friend because her kids are awful.

I understand that this little boy acted badly. It's hard to control one's less pleasant impulses. As you should know, having just vented your spleen by writing such an unkind note to the four-year-old's mother. You and that little boy have much in common in that regard.

I don't agree with going away on holidays in groups with mainly strangers, that does not seem like any type of holiday to me, more like a version of hell. An 8th circle of hell. YANBU for not wanting to see this boy again, I would cancel for your son's sake, he is probably dreading having to spend time with him.

I could say so much more about the discipline, but my views on this board at least, seem to be in the minority so I'll have to dance around the topic. But the more of these stories I read, the more reinforced my opinion becomes. Children are not disciplined anymore, and it sounds like the mother only made half-hearted attempts. My children would never have behaved like that with me, they would know after the first time. And it is not always ADHD or ASD, (rarely, in my experience) many times it is plain undisciplined behaviour. That boy won't improve because he has no incentive. His mother allowed him to take two chairs, for goodness sake, and had you standing. She did nothing. But let it happen. There is no way my children (or grandchildren) would have ever been able to do that. His mother clearly is making no attempt, and her half-hearted 'yes he can be naughty' (wow, understatement of the year) was lame. Her son controls her. And she lets it. And your son could be influenced by that. As I said though, think of your poor son having to spend a week being physically attacked by him. That's no holiday for him, is it? Cancel. Cancel and spend the week somewhere fun just the two of you. Otherwise your holiday will be miserable, and your son's holiday will be miserable. And why go on holidays with people whose company you don't enjoy, just to be miserable? What's the point? If I were your poor son I'd rather have a root canal without anaesthetic than being forced to spend one day let alone one week with that boy.

I mean...it sounds like you had a shit day which is fair enough but the sheer brass neck on you to send that text indicates you'd have had no problem asserting yourself on the holiday should she have wanted more one on one plans with you.
Just see them in a group, do your own thing, keep an eye on your kid and it will be fine.

I told the child he was being naughty and he replied I am a stinky poop

PMSL

That's much better that "Did you mean to be so rude?"

Even having seen your text I still think it was really unkind as it's blatantly obvious that you're just blaming her child for the behaviour of yours.

It would definitely be preferable for you not to go on the holiday if you're going to be that precious about your own child and that stroppy/judgemental about other people's.

Boys can be quite mischievous when they get together to play. And more often than not, they are as bad as each other in terms of daring each other to do daft things, etc etc

It is not the other child's fault that your son went missing for ten minutes. You are the grown up, you are supposed to be in charge and you lost control over him at that time.

You sound quite judgemental. It is not uncommon for four years olds to be hyperactive. You can't see the future. Sometimes, the misbehaving four year olds grow into polite, well mannered adolescents and the kids who were angels when they were little kids grow up to be bloody nightmares so it might be an idea to get off your high horse.

I thought the text was quite restrained actually. OP made it clear she was concerned about the combination of two kids that hadn't behaved brilliantly in the park together, and invited the other mum to share the project of making sure that doesn't happen on holiday. Considering the main problem seems to have been that her generally compliant child who doesn't normally have to be watched like a hawk behaved unusually in the company of a child who appears to be totally off the leash, I think OP was pretty generous.

That text was brutal but at least she will now have a clear idea of who you are and can avoid you.

Some kids are hard work but your six year old was also poorly behaved. Also, what kids doesn't stand up for his/herself about keeping their own seat?!! My kids would not have moved and would have said no to scooting off at this age.

Your child needs to be more assertive both in staying in sight or doing the more mature thing but also standing his ground. The confidence this other child has could be an opportunity for your son to practice this.

You both sound stupidly out of control of your own children, how embarrassing.

He was misbehaving. I have experiencing different things.

Example one. My baby was 20 months younger than my friends child. When when my dd was born and up until she was nine months she was terrorised by this toddler. It wasn't the childs fault looking back. But at the time I thought she was going to really hurt my baby. She did things like, try to rip her bib of her neck. Pinching her dummy and bottles with dirty hands when she was days and weeks old. Screaming in her face. Trying to push her off the playmat. Sitting her her bouncer and screaming mine at her. Refusing to let her have toys and pulling things off her. Trying to hit her when she looked at the Tele. At the time I dressed her coming over. My friend would sit there and not even try and correct her so she never learned or faced consequences. The last time we ever saw her they were at mine. I had baby toys out. Those tomy egg things were out. My daughter was playing with one. She was nearly 10 months old and the child was 2.5. my friend went to the toilet and she grabbed the toy off her and growled mine at her. She then starting scooping all the toys up into a circle. I wasn't horrible but I got down to her level and took it out her hand and pointed my finger at her and said please do not snatch from the baby. That night I messaged My friend and said the kids were the wrong age to play right now and she went mardy.

On the other foot my daughter struggles emotionally if other children are with us. She starts getting upset and tells me I'm not allowed to hold babies. She's actually growing out of it now but last year she was hell. She embarrassed me so much. She's amazing with her little brother though. So I've also been the mum to the child not being nice. That said she doesn't say rude things to adults and wouldn't throw stones. Maybe she's chucked grass on a child before playing. But I soon nip that in the bud. I always correct behaviour and remind her how to be.

I will add on..... I noticed right from being 2-4 years old. My daughter could cope with anything for 45 minutes! After that she went downhill. She got tired. More emotional. She wanted to be in her own space.

I think we do too much with youngsters these days. We are expected to keep them entertained. But in all honesty they are too young for it in many ways. Sometimes we drag them out for picnics and park fun and it's just not a day they want to do those things. Perhaps the boy in question just wasn't in a good mood that day and overtired. Too hot maybe.

@justchecking80 you really need to give your head a wobble if you think your text was in anyway kind , your child is 2 yrs older , perhaps you should review your own parenting skills before commenting in other people’s .

Her child sounds like he has ADHD and not just mildy.

This Mum is going to need all the friends she can get in the coming years from the sound of it. Having a child with ADHD or Autsim can be very lonely as people can't see your child's disability, they only see behavioural issues and a shitty parent (while the parent actually works really hard to try and 'fix' their child. If you like her as a friend maybe you can limit the contact between your children while still seeing her yourself.

It is understandable if you feel the need to step away but it might be good to explain to your son that different people's brains work differently and that it is important to always try to be understanding but also set boundaries and if he is ever not comfortable that he can and should always let or a responsible adult know.

Good Luck on your holiday, try not to stress too much unless you run in to problems.

As some of the teachers on here have said it doesn't always have to be SEN. It can ba kid being naughty with ineffective parents too! I don't understand the holidaying in groups during a pandemic thing either and perhaps pulling out might be best as you will end up living the whole time on edge.

I had a friend with a similar child and like a PP said I remained friends with the mother but did things without kids. Now the children are older and her son went to school he calmed down a lot, has grown in to a lovely teenager and is a pleasure to chat with.

As the mother is not a friend there is no obligation on you to put up with days like these so just decline or bow out in future.

I would have left the play date once it became clear his mother couldn’t control him. No fun for anyone.

Time to get out of this holiday or come up with a really good plan to avoid more of the same.

YABU for losing sight of your child and blaming the 4 year old, especially when your child is 2 years older. Absolutely your responsibility there.

YANBU for not wanting to go on holiday with them....I wouldn’t!

YABU for the way you handled the whole situation and the message to the other mother.

This child sounds exactly like my child who is currently being assessed for ADHD.
I can tell you it’s a lonely place when other people judge you and your child when they don’t know what you are going through and when you are trying your best. My oldest child is the complete opposite so it’s not my parenting.
I’ve had the looks of disgust and judgement from so called friends or strangers and it has brought me to tears on a number of occasions. On the other hand I have some wonderful friends who are completely understanding and supportive. I wouldn’t want a friend like you op, let alone go on holiday with you. You would probably be doing them a favour if you pulled out of the holiday

I don't think scooter racing is unreasonable, and if you fall off and hurt yourself that's part of scooter racing, tbh.

Tbh i usually give other parents one go at stopping, say, sand throwing but if it continued i'm right in there with a stern "no, stop it". And if that hadn't stopped it, i'd have told the other mum that we were going home. Lying across 2 seats so your son had to stand up? did he mind? Sounds like the other mum can't control her child and was a bit glad to share the load.

You were clearly not paying attention that he went out of sight. When my almost 6 year old gets carried away when playing I just shout not to go further as I can't see her.

Why are you going away with these people?

Will the larger group on holiday be within Covid guidelines?

Ditch the August trip.

I am torn here because this behaviour is very like what I often had when on playdates with DS when he was 2-4 years old (he got a diagnosis of ADHD and ASD when he was 6). But I would have removed DS from this situation well before the end of the playdate described as I'd have known he would struggle to control himself

It was awful frankly but what I started to do around when he was 3 years old was to give one warning for any aggressive or very defiant behaviour (my standards were pretty low to give him a chance - so no physically hurting and no ignoring if the instruction was based on something to keep people safe. but most other things I let slide)

If we had a second incident we left immediately, from wherever we were. This was not too difficult to implement as I didn't have any other children to take into account.

DS hated it and would often scream and scream as we left. I also had parents try and stop me leaving on occasion saying I was overreacting (usually the same ones who had very well behaved children , were not used to having to physically removed a screaming and kicking, hitting child from a situation and had not been party to my first warning to DS)

In addition I tried to avoid places that I thought DS would struggle with which included places with lots of other children playing together in an unstructured way .

Over time (it did take about a year), DS stopped hurting people when we were with him . This was a combination of us avoiding places that we knew would trigger him and us understanding when we needed to leave if we had made a mistake (before he got too upset) and also DS learning to behave better .

In the scenario described and in the other parent's shoes, I would have ignored the lying on the seats and given up my seat as well. However I'd have taken this as a sign that DS was reaching the limit of his tolerance for this part of the playdate so would have encouraged us to move outside

I would have given warning to my DS about the sand throwing as that could lead to getting sand in the eyes and counted as physically hurting in my book . I'd have told him that if he threw sand again we would have to play elsewhere as I couldn't allow him to potentially hurt other people's eyes.

I also would have got in the sand pit with him and OP's son and made sure to model the right way to play with sand. I'd have looked closely for signs he would do this again and try to head off that behaviour. If I missed the signs and he did it again, I'd have insisted we leave the sand pit and play something else. Sometimes this would be ok but often he would have protested very very loudly about this. I'd have then told him his choice was playing on something else or going home. This would usually work as he knew I most definitely would take home home otherwise.

The problem would be of course that the sand throwing was solved in the short term, I knew that he might throw something else later (He often threw things at this age, just randomly and out of the blue).

I wouldn't have cared about the going off on a scooter in the play ground as I knew he wouldn't have gone that far . However when he started throwing gravel, I'd have warned him if he continued to throw gravel we would go home as by now, I'd know he was reaching the end of his coping methods.

I'd likely would have had to take him home shortly after that anyway , as even if he did stop throwing the gravel (which he most likely would have done for a few minutes) . He almost certainly would have done it again a few minutes later (just because he'd forgotten what I had said) .

Same as @MeridianB I would have left earlier on in the play date. I wouldn't want to expose my children to that sort of behaviour either and pick up things like it's ok to call someone's mummy a stinky poop.

I do feel sorry for the mum of the misbehaved child though. Poor thing must be exhausted and probably has very few mum friends because no one wants to hang out with her son. I bet she really enjoyed your company.

If it's a big group going away in August you'll be able to avoid this mum and son.

There is lazy parenting on both sides.

I don't mean the OP should directly tell the other boy off in front of his Mum, but there are ways and means!

Well I certainly wouldn't have sent a message like that. I would have just made sure they didn't play alone while you are away. I find that a really odd message to be honest.