For not wanting to see this child ever again?

[justchecking80]

Today son (6yo) and I met acquaintance mum and her child (4yo) for lunch and play in the park. We are both in a larger group due to go on holiday with kids later in August and mum approached me asking for a playdate so the kids "can get to know each other".
This child is "difficult" and prone to aggressive behaviour and tantrums. We've been out with them a couple of time and child has been very physical, in one instance even wrapping his arm around my son's neck.

Anyway, we met for lunch and things went ok, although towards the end child decided he wanted to lay down on his and son's chair so my son had to stand up while his mum was finishing her meal. Also, at one point the child started screaming extremely loudly with people staring at us.
We then went to the park where child has been:

• throwing sand on my son, aiming to his face
• being disobedient and totally disregarding what his mum was asking him to do/not to do
• invited my son to a race with their scooters, resulting in me and mum losing sight of them for a good 10 minutes, I've never once lost my son before. During this time my son got slightly injured falling from the swing while child was pushing.
• throwing gravel stones at me and my son, and carrying on after his mum asked him to stop
• at the end of the playdate, we were due to leave and by now I was looking forward to it to catch the train home and after I asked the child to return my son's scooter because we needed to run for the train he decided to run away with it while his mum chasing him for a good 10 minute, resulting in us actually missing the train
• when we finally got hold of them (mum was still trying to take the scooter out of child' hands) I told the child he was being naughty and he replied I am a stinky poop
• we then left mum and child behind to try to get the train child was having a meltdown anyway but after realising that was too late we slowed down our pace, resulting in mum and child catching up with us and having to walk together while child kept calling me stinky poop for several times ignoring him mum's plea to stop.

AIBU for not wanting to meet this child ever again and now dreading to have to spend a week with them in August?

So the child’s mum:

• asked him to stop throwing stones
• tried to get your son’s scooter back off him by chasing him ‘for a good ten minutes’
• pleaded with him to stop calling you a stinky poop
• tried to discipline her child

Imagine for one second being that mum who was trying her absolute best. She gets home exhausted and then receives a horrid and unnecessary text like that. Surely you, as a parent, could have just ensured the two weren’t left unsupervised together on holiday if it bothered you that much.

And blaming a 4 year old for your 6 year old disappearing briefly?

You sound like a stinky poop to me.

The clue is in the original post in which JC80 reveals that the 4yo's mother ASKED him to stop throwing gravel. ASKED? There's the problem and one which underlies so much of what is going wrong with the fabric of our society today, in which arty-farty liberal-minded so-called parents offer choices to man-cubs. You can only offer a child a choice if the choices on offer are all agreeable to you. This whole "asking" rather than TELLING is oh-so modern, and it is easy to see the difference between children brought up luvy-dovey liberally and those brought up properly. Picture: old person walking along narrow pavement, approaching a family. The well-brought up children are likely to give way to the fogey, the ones who have been brought up to believe they are the centre of the known universe and are never TOLD by their probably well-meaning parents won't give way. You could see this gradually happening in schools, whether or not children had been brought up to regard adults as their equals or brought up to generally respect them. In JC80s situation (and I have been in similar situations countless times), I would have provided the necessary instructions to the child and in the case of the persistent lack of respect (name-calling in this case) would have asked the question: you think this is acceptable, do you? Well, I (underlined) don't.
The 4yos mother has made a cross for her own back in failing to provide limits and failing to impose (dare I use this non-PC word) punishments for poor behaviour. I remember seeing a young mum with 3 children in a Tesco's once, the eldest boy playing up. "GO AND STAND BY THAT WALL!" she eventually shouted (Gasp!) at the boy, who immediately went to said wall and stood facing it! He knew what to do, obviously because his mum disciplined him (LOUDER GASP!). I went over to her and congratulated her on her parenting. Sadly, not nearly enough of that goes on any more and our town and city streets get full of semi-feral kids causing mayhem just for want of having been brought up with standards. Rant over! Stay safe.

This reminds me a little bit of one of the boys from my nct group, I’ll call him Jack. We used to see each other a lot in the first year when we were off work. The following year we met up less. Each time we met up this Jacks behaviour seemed to get worse. He was only a toddler so too young to blame him. At first he was just a bit boisterous, but then it got that he would be a bit aggressive with the other children. For me it culminated when we had a get together at their house when the kids had not long turned 2. Unfortunately only myself (with oldest Dd) and another Mum and son could make it. My Dd had delayed walking due to hypermobility. You wouldn’t know it now, but she didn’t walk till she was 2 years 3 months. She was a happy little bottom shuffler though. The other boy had not long learned to walk as he had general developmental delays. Jack would attack the other children as soon as they tried to play with anything including their own toys they had brought from home. He would charge at them knocking them over. His Mums only answer seemed to be to hold him so he couldn’t move. As soon she let go of him he would attack again. My poor Dd ended up spending most the time we were their hiding behind my back on the sofa. Myself and the other Mum made our excuses early and left. I haven’t been round their house since and that was 2 and half years ago. In fact the only time I’ve seen them was at one of the groups party and his Mum took him off early as he was misbehaving. I can’t blame Jack as he was so young. I also do feel sorry for the Mum, though felt she could have done more. 2 isn’t too young for a naughty step etc. At the end of the day I am not taking my child round to someone’s house where they are going to be physically attacked by another child. The throwing of gravel in your case op would be a real red flag as it could cause real injury.

@justchecking80 So many red flags there for SEN. He may have ADHD/ASD/PDA, so he's not "naughty", not "negatively influencing other children". Mum needs support and understanding and you need patience and to be kind.

We don't what is wrong with this child as we have only heard a brief snippet of his behaviour, but most kids I know who behave like its generally due to poor parenting techniques or due to the parent not spending enough time with them due to work/other commitments. Having said that, the child is 4 and it could just be a little phase of testing the boundaries.
I, however have a child with adhd and over the years have had so many people say they think their child has it but their child is simply a terror! Adhd isn't an excuse for a poorly behaved kid! When you have a child woth adhd you know its more than 'bad behaviour'. My daughter (10) has so many struggles thoughout the years down to the difficulties of adhd(walks across roads without looking, cannot focus in a classroom therefore is behind, constantly moves around and figgits non stop, has no stranger danger and would talk to anyone, just to name a few things!)and its very lonely and difficult for us both.
Perhaps trying talking to the mum. Maybe meet for coffee/wine to try to find out more about each other and you may find out more about her situation and why he is like this. She may be very grateful for someone to talk to!! Good luck with your predicament x

[quote CallmeBadJanet]@justchecking80 So many red flags there for SEN. He may have ADHD/ASD/PDA, so he's not "naughty", not "negatively influencing other children". Mum needs support and understanding and you need patience and to be kind.[/quote]
God almighty! Equally, he may not.

YANBU, the kid sounds like a little bastard.
Don't put your son through that again.

The poor mother! This child obviously has some difficulties/issues. I’m hope she gets the support she needs.

@Deputy123 no 4 year old should ever be described as a little bastard.

"The clue is in the original post in which JC80 reveals that the 4yo's mother ASKED him to stop throwing gravel. ASKED?"

Presumably the word ask is used here to mean told. Just phrasing.

This message has really affected me on a personal level. I have one child with SEN who behaves as you describe. I also have two younger neuro-typical children. Her life is hard enough without judgement from others over her perceived ‘bad behaviour’. Not every disability is visible.

@Foramen

The clue is in the original post in which JC80 reveals that the 4yo's mother ASKED him to stop throwing gravel. ASKED? There's the problem and one which underlies so much of what is going wrong with the fabric of our society today, in which arty-farty liberal-minded so-called parents offer choices to man-cubs. You can only offer a child a choice if the choices on offer are all agreeable to you. This whole "asking" rather than TELLING is oh-so modern, and it is easy to see the difference between children brought up luvy-dovey liberally and those brought up properly. Picture: old person walking along narrow pavement, approaching a family. The well-brought up children are likely to give way to the fogey, the ones who have been brought up to believe they are the centre of the known universe and are never TOLD by their probably well-meaning parents won't give way. You could see this gradually happening in schools, whether or not children had been brought up to regard adults as their equals or brought up to generally respect them. In JC80s situation (and I have been in similar situations countless times), I would have provided the necessary instructions to the child and in the case of the persistent lack of respect (name-calling in this case) would have asked the question: you think this is acceptable, do you? Well, I (underlined) don't. The 4yos mother has made a cross for her own back in failing to provide limits and failing to impose (dare I use this non-PC word) punishments for poor behaviour. I remember seeing a young mum with 3 children in a Tesco's once, the eldest boy playing up. "GO AND STAND BY THAT WALL!" she eventually shouted (Gasp!) at the boy, who immediately went to said wall and stood facing it! He knew what to do, obviously because his mum disciplined him (LOUDER GASP!). I went over to her and congratulated her on her parenting. Sadly, not nearly enough of that goes on any more and our town and city streets get full of semi-feral kids causing mayhem just for want of having been brought up with standards. Rant over! Stay safe.

Well said!!

I agree that children with additional needs need understanding and parents need support and zero judgement (I have personal experience with such) however some parents turn a blind eye or can't muster the energy to consistently correct behaviour and some kids have Little Shitisis.

YANBU. My heart would be in my mouth if I lost sight of him at 6 years old. If you are forced to spend time with them I would be next to my son at all times, appreciate this would be draining. I would also be tempted to try and speak to the mum about it, how you or your son find it a stressful position to be in. I have been in a similar situation and the other mum recognises her son is hard work xx

They could be going abroad on holiday...

I wouldn't go.

I avoid my friends son because he always tries to kick, punch, spit and throw things at my daughter. The first time he did it, I moved her away but he kept coming for her and we left.

My dd is 1 and my friends son is 4. Friends son has autism and friend uses that as an excuse for his behaviour.

This is not meant to sound as if I am against autistic kids, my ds has autism and adhd so I've been there but my son never tried to hurt a baby.

I feel awful for that poor mother of the difficult child. We don’t get to choose our children, she is clearly struggling.
As regards the holiday, go or don’t go, only you can decide if you can put up with seeing them again. The text however was quite unnecessary.

Lots saying the mum needs understanding, maybe reach out and that OP shouldn't have sent the text. It may be too much for OP to take on. If she hadn't texted she'd have had to adopt an avoidance strategy which would be criticised - MN generally believe issues should be tackled up front, which OP tried to do.

I'd hope the child's mother has/gets support but it's unfair to expect OP to slot into that role. I'm by nature a people fixer but now and again I reach my limits and have to back away from something.

OP - your friend's child sounds a nightmare, the original brat. Most children listen to their parents and if a child is naughty because of medical problems then you have to decide if you want to be part of it. The gravel/sand incident followed by unacceptable name calling would make me back away. If the child has special needs, the mother will make new friends with parents at groups especially for children with behaviour problems. Children DO copy and if one child "gets away" with naughty behaviour, other children soon want to join in.

towards the end child decided he wanted to lay down on his and son's chair so my son had to stand up while his mum was finishing her meal.

Why? A lot of blame seems to be put on the 4yo - why did you and his mum allow this?

If the 4yo was already tired and trying to lay down, why go to the park? It sounds like 4yo needs a nap. Most children are ratty and disobedient when overtired. The 4yo tried to tell you both what he needed and instead of cutting things short, you took him to a playground to get him even more tired!

On holiday, I would try to keep meetups to the morning and suggest everyone has an afternoon nap to recharge.

"Children DO copy and if one child "gets away" with naughty behaviour, other children soon want to join in."

If parents of NT copiers can't manage their child's behaviour they need to look in the direction of their own parenting.

"This is not meant to sound as if I am against autistic kids, my ds has autism and adhd so I've been there but my son never tried to hurt a baby."

You are absolutely right to do whatever you need to do to protect your child but whatever the reasons for the boys hitting etc it is very unlikely he was doing it because he wanted to hurt a baby.

@30Petlover9 you do know those groups barely exist right? And then usually reserved for kids with the most severe issues as the demand is so huge so those in the struggling category miss out.

My DD qualified for postage and the special play groups etc but was never severe enough to be high enough priority to actually receive them. She slipped through every gap for early support for both her and I as she also couldn't access normal groups which meant I was completely isolated.

It's a common occurance sadly :(

Makes you wonder what sort of man that child will grow up to be.

Good grief, there are an awful lot of judgemental comments here. It's a difficult one, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say they shouldn't play together unsupervised. I would have said they need to be supervised in any event, especially given their ages.
I get the impression that your DS was okay playing with the younger child though, and didn't say he hadn't wanted to?
Sounds like the Mum is struggling to manage her LO's behaviour, and there may well be additional needs involved. Those of us with children with disabilities/additional needs so sadly face this scenario all the time, and it's so easy to be ostricised by parents with neurotypical children, though it does sound as though you thought carefully about how you worded your message.
Do you know her well enough to talk about whether she is struggling, as there is loads of support available if people are able to open up?