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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not necessarily want a well-behaved child?

634 replies

OneStepAheadOfTheToddler · 02/08/2020 09:23

Ok, so the title of this thread is perhaps a little more controversial than I was intending it to be.

I was a well-behaved child. Everyone always complimented my parents on how my siblings and I behaved. We were quiet, shy, always stayed by their side, never ran away to explore and, if we ever did anything to show them up, were made to feel so guilty and ashamed about it that we never did it ever again. We hated shouting and raised voices and couldn't bear to disappoint our parents. We would never have dreamt about joining in with the naughty kids at school and weren't very good at making friends, although this is something that we've all got better at as we got older and discovered that actually we do like to enjoy ourselves after all Grin. I was speaking to MIL the other day and she said it was exactly the same for her and her sisters; they wouldn't say boo to a goose, lived in fear of their parents' anger, didn't have much fun and had very little confidence or self-belief. In both cases, our parents could take us anywhere.

DS is not a well-behaved child. He's a sweet, funny toddler who never bites or hits. But he has ants in his pants, can't sit still for more than two minutes, loves doing naughty things for a reaction and yelling and telling off doesn't seem to have any impact. He's not afraid of anything. Whenever we go anywhere, he is off exploring in a trice. He is very sociable, loves other children and will always join in with any game that is going on. We stopped going to toddler groups for a bit since he was always the leader of the 'naughty boys' (with the occasional girl) who would run around the room in circles rather than listening to the lovely music teacher and it was too embarrassing. I have never been complimented on his behaviour and probably never will be. Though apparently he behaves much better in nursery and they're very fond of him. But I can't take him anywhere.

Now, I know there is a balance to be struck - we need to be firmer with DS whereas our parents probably went too far in the other direction. But the holy grail on here seems to be "Oh yes, I can take my children out for a 3 course meal in a Michelin-starred restaurant and they behave perfectly". Is it personality or parenting? And are parents of well-behaved children concerned that their children might struggle later on in life, as we did? If not, because your children are that perfect blend of well-behaved and confident, how have you achieved this? What tips can you give me?

OP posts:
Mothermorph · 02/08/2020 10:42

My parents were often complimented how well behaved me and my siblings were. We're all quite quiet and shy, and I am really not as assertive as how I would like to be.
When my DC were v young we had a few slightly disastrous meals out and then didnt go out for about 2 years. Now they do behave well in restaurants and other parents compliment me on how polite they are if they go to tea at a friends house. However DS esp is quite quiet but fairly popular with other children. His preschool teachers used to tell me how funny and cheeky he was and lots of teachers since then have commented how popular he is in the class, but also well behaved. DD by contrast is much more like me and very shy and even as a teen doesnt like speaking to people she diesnt know. She wouldnt get an icecream from the icecream van the other day unless I went with her! I'd like them both to be a but more assertive but I know I am a really poor role model!

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/08/2020 10:42

My dd has boundless energy, even now in comparison to her peers. She couldn’t sit down at 2.5 and couldn’t go to places, where a lot of other children by this age could sit still for short periods eg the cinema. She was into everything and a bit naughty. But not like your ds. She is very quiet and compliant at school and doesn’t say a cross word to her friends.

I have been very careful not to break her spirit or expect compliance. I was such a “good” child at home, which dd certainly isn’t. If you can’t take your ds to playgroup, it would suggest he needs reigning in. Rather than telling him off, you would be better to talk about expectations and behaviour. Instill family values. This is how we as a family act etc.

netflixismysidehustle · 02/08/2020 10:42

The problem is getting the balance between naughty behaviour that's going to alienate his peers and "cheeky but fun" behaviour that other kids will find funny in the playground. The former will lead to a life of being punished and your peers swerving you.

It sounds like you're desperately trying to not be your parents and going a bit far the other way.

It's not black and white. Being naughty does not mean being happy and confident. Being compliant doesn't mean anxious and lacking in confidence. Most children are in between these extremes.

You shouldn't see just the negatives of a child being an extrovert/introvert. An introverted child might be kinder and more thoughtful than average and make their friends happy. An extroverted child might have the confidence to speak up if they witness bullying. Having ants in your pants can mean being active and adventurous so not necessarily bad but if he's having a negative effect on others then it needs reining in.

Thefab3 · 02/08/2020 10:43

Actually, totally disagree @Bluntness100, there are times where kids should be able to run feral.
And no, the op isn’t necessary “fucked”, one of mine was a bolter, climber etc when a toddler and is an extremely, well behaved six year old ( still needs loads of exercise but fantastic that they are fit).

FilthyforFirth · 02/08/2020 10:44

If some of the details have changed to be less outing, are you my SIL?! It does seem like you are trying to excuse poor behaviour. My nephew is the poorest behaved child I have ever come across and a large part of it is SIL is convinced he is 'sweet, kind, funny, lovely'. He is rarely any of those things in company. She doesnt really believe in discipline and confirms his belief that the whole world revolves around him...

Don't be so shocked that some toddlers dont have tantrums. DS just turned 3 and he has never had one. I am far from a perfect parent and currently pregnant with number 2. I am under no illusions that this new one will have tantrums. They are completely normal. But I am not lying to say DS hasnt had one. I am quite strict but I think it is something to do with personality too. He is just very laid back.

I think you need to think a bit more about discipline. My nephew will be starting school this year and sadly I am certain he is going to be 'that child' that other kids dont like/dont want to play with. Dont let that become yours!

Haworthia · 02/08/2020 10:44

I’m having a good laugh at all the perfect parents who think the OP is a terrible parent and her child (who isn’t even THREE) is a brat Grin

I bet all the “never had a tantrum” folk think it was down to their excellent parenting rather than being an inborn personality trait (clue: it’s the latter).

My children were the hardest work ever between the ages of 2 and 3 (although 1-2 and 3-4 weren’t exactly a picnic either). Anyway, turns out they’re both autistic so it goes some way to explaining why I struggled so much with their utter non-compliance and lack of easygoing sunny nature.

OhCaptain · 02/08/2020 10:45

The problem is getting the balance between naughty behaviour that's going to alienate his peers and "cheeky but fun" behaviour that other kids will find funny in the playground. The former will lead to a life of being punished and your peers swerving you.

This is interesting because all three of my dc have kids in the class whose antics they laugh at. But nobody really plays with them or wants them as friends...

Rabblemum · 02/08/2020 10:46

There are shades of grey here. Imagine if we always did as we were told? Imagine if the Suffergettes didn’t bother rebelling against repression? Imagine if Ghandi just accepted British rule? Imagine if slaves just did as they were told? We would have a way worse world.

If you read my post I’ve stated kids shouldn’t damage things or ruin anyone else’s day but there are times and situations when we can let them be children. Maybe we should let kids run around and be silly, they sleep an awful lot better.

Emeeno1 · 02/08/2020 10:46

The problem is, parents of 'good' children think they had something to do with it, and then they like to tell us all how to repeat their success but with an entirely different child.

It's bollocks.

Your the one who knows here, live confidently.

Savingshoes · 02/08/2020 10:47

Search for the book "Summerhill" by A.S. Neill. He explains how normal it is for children to be thankless and empathetic.
He also explains that we should enjoy them being babies for as long as children choose to be, rather then encourage them to be like mini adults.
It's a very interesting alternative way of parenting.

NoProblem123 · 02/08/2020 10:47

This is such a good thread and one I’ve thought about myself.
It seems a certain generation ‘missed out‘ as a child with strict parenting, and now as a parent with strong willed children.

I’m not sure what the answer is but balance definitely comes into it, which I’m sure you’re all over, but I agree with PPs, be careful he does become a royal PITA !

Siameasy · 02/08/2020 10:47

I’m into “pick your battles”. If DC isn’t hurting/upsetting/disrupting other people, getting into danger or potentially damaging property then let them be crazy. That’s why we as a household spend a lot of time outdoors.
Toddlers should be wriggly! Toddlers (and kids) ARE annoying. Heck ADULTS are annoying. Sitting still and obeying is not the benchmark of success in life. We need more critical thinkers and fewer sheep. It’s a balance for sure.

OneStepAheadOfTheToddler · 02/08/2020 10:48

@FilthyforFirth. No I don't think I'm your SIL Grin. DS not starting school for a couple of years yet, thankfully! We'll try to whip him into shape before then (not literally).

OP posts:
BluebellsGreenbells · 02/08/2020 10:48

OP from what you describe, you haven’t set the expectations before going somewhere.

You need to say DS we are going to sit and eat lunch. If you behave well and then at nicely, we’ll get ice cream after (or what ever) if not we shall leave.

Same for the park- we are going to the play park, when it’s time to go hime I expect you to come nicely, and we’ll have hot chocolate at home. If you play up they’ll be no hot chocolate. - or whatever is their price - Pepper pig, car game, sandpit, juice. You’ll know what works.

trilbydoll · 02/08/2020 10:48

My two didn't really have toddler tantrums, they waited until they were 4 and started having far more impressive ones Grin

OneStepAheadOfTheToddler · 02/08/2020 10:49

because all three of my dc have kids in the class whose antics they laugh at. But nobody really plays with them or wants them as friends...

Yes, this is what I want to avoid.

OP posts:
SnuggyBuggy · 02/08/2020 10:49

I wonder if all the parents who claim their child never had tantrums as a toddler are remembering that time accurately.

FilthyforFirth · 02/08/2020 10:50

I dont think it is all parents. I have explicitely stated that I think the fact that DS hadnt tantrumed (yet, he is only 3) is nothing to do with my 'perfect parenting' and that I fully expect my next one will.

Just pointing out that some kids dont tantrum. I am not saying this is anything to do with me, though I am strict. He is not a perfect child. Horrible eater if that makes anyone feel better.

Mothermorph · 02/08/2020 10:50

My DS was a complete nightmare at home as a toddler and blocked the toilet/painted a wall/climbed on to window sills if you so much as tuned your back or went to the toilet/shower.....but he was more manageable when we were out with the occassional tantrum and wouldnt be so destructive at other peoples houses or toddler groups (luckily!)

jackandjill12 · 02/08/2020 10:51

My husband and his sister had an extremely strict catholic upbringing so strict such as God only loves children who are good and God was used as an excuse for everything. His sister felt trapped as she was never allowed out the house till her 16th birthday. She moved out the day after her 16th birthday, 6 children later her life is a mess as there are no boundaries what so ever and never have been as she had a such a strict parenting regime she completely rebelled. She now has grandchilren as well but 2 of those are in care as her daughter had no idea how to parent as my SIL never really parented - everything was just a free for all as she was rebelling against her childhood. My DH on the other hand loved the way he was brought up and thinks children basically should be seen and not heard. A mixture between the two extremes is what is needed. But I do think sometimes parenting doesn't matter it is down to the child's personality. I have a freind who has 2 children 11 months apart and her older DD is the most beautifully well behaved child who is exceptionally compliant and her younger DD who is parented exactly the same is defiant, rude, arrogant, exceptionally sassy for 7 and a general PITA. I hate admitting it but I love having the older child round for a playdate but not the younger one - she is a destroyer!! Her husband has mentioned ADHD to the school but they say she is just spirited and full of mischief. They are strict not overly strict but nothing works for their younger daughter. So don't be too hard on yourself as long as you are parenting with boundaries were necessary and showing your child that you still love them regardless of their behaviour you are doing a great job.

Quinquagesima · 02/08/2020 10:51

My children are older, OP (16 plus).

One in particular was extremely difficult (ASD). However, I was complimented many, many times on how well behaved they all were in public/restaurants/other people's houses, etc.

These same children could be absolutely foul: tantrummy, 'non-compliant', over-exuberant (i.e. boisterous), aggressive to one another, whingey, etc, etc, etc.

I spent a lot of time thinking I was either too strict, or not strict enough.

OP, I think things that worked to keep a balance were:

Some things are absolutely not negotiable. If they have the idea that there is any wriggle-room whatsoever, they will exploit it. So going to bed, in your own bedroom, at (insert appropriate time for young child) is non-negotiable. Eating only sitting at the table is non-negotiable (no walking around eating, or hopping up and down from the table, etc). Transgressions merit one warning, and then the offender is removed. This is absolutely vital, as a child who doesn't know that food is only consumed at the table, as a group, is the same child who runs around in restaurants, annoying other customers and getting in the way of the staff.

I think those were the two big 'non negotiables'', but they were generally helpful as it gave the DC the idea that some things were set in stone - which comes in handy when you want them to behave in a certain way in a certain setting.

So: restaurants. I used to take mine to a rather fine place for coffee and biscuits (they didn't have coffee, obviously) before taking them for a very long walk on Sundays. This involved a lot of prior preparation ("When we get there, we are all going to talk quietly and sit in our chairs", etc). It also involved me being engaged with them the whole time. I couldn't read the papers: I kept them occupied with stories, cards, hangman etc. This was pre-phones, tablets, etc (though I think actual engagement with the child is a far better way to do it, as they learn 'better manners', if you like, than they would from staring at a screen while the adults do their own thing). So it was not a relaxing experience, but it gave them the idea that 'nice' places require 'nice' behaviour (they were always so well behaved that they were great favourites with the staff). The best thing was always when crotchety old types would come in and glare at the sight of 'small children', but would then end up saying how nice it was to encounter such pleasant and polite and quiet children. These same children then got to run around the woods for the rest of the day, bickering, moaning about 'he said' and 'she said', running around and yelling. Because those things are absolutely fine outside where they're among other children all doing the same.

After that, the likes of Pizza Express, cafes are a bit easier (though, again, I just had to keep them occupied all the time - colouring, noughts and crosses, etc). I also had a couple of very special hand puppets which only came out on very special occasions (i.e. when I particularly needed them to behave). They used to love talking to the Special Puppets.

So I suppose it's context, OP.

My child with AS was a PITA at toddler groups etc (or would have been). The only way round this, for me, was for me to forget any ideas of having a chat with other mums (sod socialising the children: socialising with other mums was the main reason I was there) and engage with him instead. I sort of had to show him how to play in such a way that he wasn't going to piss everyone off. I could do this with him, as I was reasonably sure that the others would potter around without too much drama.

It is very hard work, though.

As I say, mine are now older and are still capable of being absolutely unspeakable at home, and one in particular is a 'one of the crowd' type and is prone to doing very ill-considered things, just as she was when she was a toddler (though I can take them all anywhere, and they are apparently excellent house guests).

Sorry for the essay, @OneStepAheadOfTheToddler I could just have said "striking the balance is really hard work". Grin

itsgettingweird · 02/08/2020 10:51

@OneStepAheadOfTheToddler

Sorry, I’ve read everyone’s comments and found them very interesting, but can’t respond to them all.

@itsgettingweird. Thank you for sharing this. I was very like this too when I was a child and it affected me for a long time.

@blissfulllife. Yes, I think this is why I’m reluctant to see ‘I can take them anywhere’ as being the hallmark of good parenting. It makes life much easier for the parents, though.

@Chickoletta What do you do when he runs around and disrupts the music session?
I tell him no, and if that doesn’t work, physically restrain him on my lap. If he keeps doing it, we leave the session. That’s essentially why we stopped going…we were leaving more sessions than we attended.

@Bluntness100. I’m not trying to backtrack, I promise... In my eyes (and I know I’m biased) DS is lovely, funny, sweet, kind. He’s never hit or bitten and I can count on one hand the times he’s pushed another child. We don’t tolerate nasty behaviour towards other children - he gets removed, told off and made to apologise. But….I’m not deluded enough to think he’s well-behaved or that we're particularly good parents. What we’re not so strict on (and perhaps we should be) is the sitting quietly at mealtimes or to read or do activities and the staying by our side and not going off exploring (unless it’s near a road or in a dangerous situation, in which case he gets strapped in the buggy if he doesn’t listen and hold hands). Also, DS will do things like deliberately turn over the paint water, play with his cars really loudly on the floor when he knows we prefer him to be quieter, make a mess with his toys, turn out the laundry box, snatch biscuits and have a tantrum when it's time to leave the playground. None of which are really acceptable, but we tend to let them go too much.

@Fishypants. This mirrors my experience 100%. It’s those who were somewhat boisterous and exuberant at school (and maybe not the teachers' favourites) who seem to do best later on in life.

I think you've answered your own question and provided yourself a solution here!

Classes aren't working. He doesn't enjoy them. And that's fine. A music class isn't every bodies cup of tea despite what media hype tells us we should be doing as perfect parents!
I know many mums who have kids that would love this type of thing but don't go because it's their personal idea of hell Grin

But you admit the things that do matter aren't tackled. I can see why because you're picking your battles and I agree in that approach.

But I'd say sitting still in a cafe is far more important than sitting still at music class. I'd pick that battle because it matters and is a life skill.

Destroying things and deliberately being noisy is bad behaviour but I don't think at 2 he's probably thinking about it as we see it in our adult eyes.
You probably note him being noisy because you've asked him to be quiet or because he's louder than other children.
Again- perhaps this isn't his environment. Perhaps he'd prefer an adventure playground where he can noisily act out scenes from his favourite tv programme and no one cares.

OneStepAheadOfTheToddler · 02/08/2020 10:52

I’m having a good laugh at all the perfect parents who think the OP is a terrible parent and her child (who isn’t even THREE) is a brat

I don't mind. If you post a thread like this, you've got to put your hard hat on Grin. And in amongst the condemnation, there's some very useful advice and points of view for which I thank you all Star.

OP posts:
Mothermorph · 02/08/2020 10:53

My DD rarely had tantrums but the ones she did have were epic and we still remember 10 years later and laugh at them! DS had probably a few more but not regularly.

Branleuse · 02/08/2020 10:53

and yet I was mostly compliant and well behaved and noone wanted to play with me or be my friend either.

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