To not necessarily want a well-behaved child?

[OneStepAheadOfTheToddler]

Ok, so the title of this thread is perhaps a little more controversial than I was intending it to be.

I was a well-behaved child. Everyone always complimented my parents on how my siblings and I behaved. We were quiet, shy, always stayed by their side, never ran away to explore and, if we ever did anything to show them up, were made to feel so guilty and ashamed about it that we never did it ever again. We hated shouting and raised voices and couldn't bear to disappoint our parents. We would never have dreamt about joining in with the naughty kids at school and weren't very good at making friends, although this is something that we've all got better at as we got older and discovered that actually we do like to enjoy ourselves after all . I was speaking to MIL the other day and she said it was exactly the same for her and her sisters; they wouldn't say boo to a goose, lived in fear of their parents' anger, didn't have much fun and had very little confidence or self-belief. In both cases, our parents could take us anywhere.

DS is not a well-behaved child. He's a sweet, funny toddler who never bites or hits. But he has ants in his pants, can't sit still for more than two minutes, loves doing naughty things for a reaction and yelling and telling off doesn't seem to have any impact. He's not afraid of anything. Whenever we go anywhere, he is off exploring in a trice. He is very sociable, loves other children and will always join in with any game that is going on. We stopped going to toddler groups for a bit since he was always the leader of the 'naughty boys' (with the occasional girl) who would run around the room in circles rather than listening to the lovely music teacher and it was too embarrassing. I have never been complimented on his behaviour and probably never will be. Though apparently he behaves much better in nursery and they're very fond of him. But I can't take him anywhere.

Now, I know there is a balance to be struck - we need to be firmer with DS whereas our parents probably went too far in the other direction. But the holy grail on here seems to be "Oh yes, I can take my children out for a 3 course meal in a Michelin-starred restaurant and they behave perfectly". Is it personality or parenting? And are parents of well-behaved children concerned that their children might struggle later on in life, as we did? If not, because your children are that perfect blend of well-behaved and confident, how have you achieved this? What tips can you give me?

Very ill informed post - is he your first? It’s not binary - either naughty loud sociable and fun or quiet meek and well behaved 🙄

Decent parents do all they can to help their kids be both

I agree completely OP.

I was like you, the quiet well behaved kid. Never misbehaved, academic high flier.

Then I entered the job market. I was criticised for being too quiet, not speaking up, not contributing enough at meetings. I was also accused of lacking confidence. My quietness, so valued in the classroom as a model of good behaviour, was derided in the office as a model of poor engagement.

The behaviour demanded in schools doesn't necessarily translate well into the adult world.

As a result I think having a louder, more boisterous child is a good thing as it sets a child up for the adult world.

I think it’s a bit of both. I have three dcs with different personalities.

I think I kind of get what your saying but be careful you don’t end up with that kid nobody wants their kid to play with.

Kids do need to learn boundaries early because it helps them fit in to social situations better which is of great benefit to them.

Let him blow of steam and act crazy but in the right setting. Practice walking and holding his hand so he doesn’t run away and praise him lots. Practice gentle gestures on play - sharing and being kind.

Let him learn your serious face and your fun face so he knows your messing about if your trying to stop him going over board. Serious face is very important because if he gets over excited and hurts a child your going to have someone’s mother in your face and it’s not really your child’s fault.

My four year old is a little fire cracker. She will be the class joker. And probably gets away with more than she should - however she is polite and knows that when I have my ‘serious face’ on I’m not messing about. She would never run away near a road bit legs it off to the park as soon as she gets through the park gates as she knows her boundaries

@JizzPigeon22. My kids are very well behaved, never had a tantrum, do ad they’re told first time etc. But they have plenty of personality and banter. Your child just sounds plain naughty.

Amazing, they never had a tantrum! Is it personality or excellent parenting? If parenting, what's your secret? Silly me, I thought all toddlers had tantrums.

My da is naturally well behaved.

Hates breaking rules and hates others breaking rules.

Never stood up for himself as he thought shouting at someone was rude.

I spend years instilling in him it's ok to have an opinion. That it's ok to have a day over others treatment of him. It's also ok every now and again to push boundaries as long as he knew there would be consequences and he accepted them.

I would look into some support for you. You sound at risk of going too far the other way to compensate for what sounds like a very stiffling childhood.

Exploring is fine. Being leader of a group of children not doing what's asked of them is not fine. It may be personality but all personalities need guidance on how to behave appropriately despite your natural instincts.

I think you have to remember the balance. Yes perhaps your parents were over critical and controlling, but do you think that has helped in some ways? There is a reason other people liked you.

It sounds like you are not like that with your son, which is great in some ways, but if he always relies on being the cheeky chappy that can lead to later problems. You still want him to buckle down and get through school life without pissing everyone else off.

Sounds like his a pain. How can it be that you can’t take him places- that doesn’t sound fun to me.

Calling someone cheeky and confident might cut it with parents, but not normally the rest of society.

My eldest was submissive, shy and clung to us from the moment she was born; we even had a second child as company for her to bring her out of her shell. However, it's her personality, and though we're always trying to instil strong self belief and worth, she suffers painfully from a lack of confidence.

My second was exactly as you describe your DS, but when she reached her teens she retracted and lost confidence, too.

As parents, we're not heavy handed at all, especially because my mother was critical and controlling - I've always strived to be the opposite. I'm fascinated by the whole nature/nurture argument and believe, through my own experience, that nature may be stronger than we think.

It’s very hard to respond to this as you’re back tracking on your kids behaviour with every response.

Bottom line is, kids shouldn’t be cowed into submission nor should they be running feral. It’s our jobs to teach our children what is appropriate behaviour in the right settings.

If you are not in control now, you’re going to be totally fucked in a few years.

I must add there is of course a balance to be struck. A child not listening to any rules is not being taught skills to help them into the adult world either.

Amazing, they never had a tantrum! Is it personality or excellent parenting? If parenting, what's your secret? Silly me, I thought all toddlers had tantrums

Bit of both for sure. My middle child requires a bit more work then the other 2.

Mine never had tantrums. One bit though! You do need to discipline so he’s not a pain - but he’s a toddler no one expects them to sit for hours in boring restaurants

be careful you don’t end up with that kid nobody wants their kid to play with.

Yes, I think this is where I draw the line. I definitely don't want that kid. I don't mind him being able to stick up for himself and think independently, but I do want him to be polite and considerate towards others (and their belongings). He is a kind, helpful little boy and doesn't like other people to be upset, so I'm hoping we're not a lost cause yet.

[quote OneStepAheadOfTheToddler]**@JizzPigeon22. My kids are very well behaved, never had a tantrum, do ad they’re told first time etc. But they have plenty of personality and banter. Your child just sounds plain naughty.

Amazing, they never had a tantrum! Is it personality or excellent parenting? If parenting, what's your secret? Silly me, I thought all toddlers had tantrums.[/quote]
My da has never had a tantrum either. But read above how this concerned me that his over riding natural compliance actually made him vulnerable in many ways.

This is about parenting not personality. What do you do when he runs around and disrupts the music session?

I have always been frequently complimented on my DCs’ behaviour and am very proud of the fact that I have been able to take them most places from an early age. We taught them from very young that different places have different expectations. Going wild in the park/playground/garden/soft play etc is fine, doing it somewhere where other people are trying to have a quiet meal/listen to a music teacher/read is not. In my experience (teacher), the ‘best behaved’ children are those who have an understanding of the needs of other people and show empathy. This can be modelled from a very early age.
‘You mustn’t run around here because the other children want to listen/it’s not very nice for the music teacher.’ If no response, take him out of the room, repeat and say ‘If you can’t sit down nicely and listen, we’ll leave.’ And then follow through. Repeat frequently in restaurants, toddler groups, wherever else.

I was having almost the same conversation with my partner recently. I have 2 older grown up children with my ex husband. We were very sociable and the children would be in a lot of social fun situations, dinners out, parties, day trips etc and they were never perfectly behaved but they were respectful and polite....just lively and inquisitive. I used to wish they could be like my sil children and sit still or be quieter at times but ah they were children and I wanted them to enjoy themselves. They've grown into very confident, witty, sociable adults with lots of really lovely friends and great partners, jobs and lifestyles. They too bring their children up the same way and we laugh at the similar things their children get up to.

Fast forward to my younger two with my now partner and things are very different upbringing. My partner is not at all sociable. Has no real close friend but a few acquaintances. His family are very restrained and the children are expected to behave and be quiet when they have us round or have parties etc. I've gone out of my way to make sure they get the usual social interactions etc nursery, after school clubs but it's hard when your partner refuses to ever want to go anywhere or do anything and although I've really tried our youngest has health problems which has made it difficult for us to get out much without transport or support. He also is very like his parents and wants very well behaved children. Although he's not actually very strict the children adore him and have always wanted to please him. They've become very reserved and quiet individuals. The elder has now developed quite a severe social anxiety for which she's about to receive treatment. She has two close friends but doesn't open up much. Gets embarrassed really easily and finds it excruciating. A worrier. She finds life especially social situations of any kind really difficult. The younger is ASD so it's always going to be harder for them but also would rather be home all the time away from people even family.

It's hit me hard and I'm full of resentment with my partner at the moment but also having to accept I'm partly to blame.

I truly believe children need to be a bit naughty, not to have their personalities held back. Be around people lots. Slowly learn to sit and eat out and develop manners. Learn how to interact. Be encouraged to be themselves

Oh and that’s why parenting is so bloody hard! Too soft your kid is vile too tough and you crush their spirit!

Oh and the dilemmas continue mine early teen and we have issues weekly what to allow what not what’s reasonable what isn’t what’s everyone else doing etc - this parenting lark is not easy!

If you can’t go to toddler groups then his behaviour definitely needs to be fixed. Parents make all sorts of excuses for their poorly behaved kids with no boundaries but think of it this way - how would you feel if his lack of boundaries resulted in him wondering off with a stranger or hurting another child? You need to nip this behaviour in the bud now.

@Sendmoneynow. Yes, I think it's this point I'm trying to think about. Because I definitely didn't have much confidence in my teenage years and I think that's much worse for future success in life than being a naughty, over exuberant toddler.

Neither of mine ever had a tantrum either.

To be honest I'd really hate to have a child I couldn't take anywhere. My dc are certainly full of character- endless energy and strong minded but I don't want to have to stay home and I'd be mortified if they didn't behave in a restaurant or were disruptive in groups.

DS is not a well-behaved child

He is a toddler so two or three, right? You son is not badly behaved. He is a normal toddler. He is behaving developmentally appropriately for a child his age. It is normal for a child his age not to like sitting down. They develop different skills at different ages. Take him to a toddler group that suits him - one where he is able to play freely and it not expected to sit down and stay still.

It's just that DS doesn't seem to be cowed into submission by it the same way I would have been as a child

You seem to be comparing him to yourself at that age - you were cowed into submission so you don't want to do that to him. I'd suggest striking a happy medium so he doesn't go too far the other way. .

Ah I used to say my son was spirited, his own person etc, obviously what I really meant is he is doing naughty things and I’m failing to correct him in an appropriate manner.

From the age of about 2-2.5 he was fairly feral, as a result we couldn’t do a lot of things as it wasn’t fair inflicting him on other people. We did go to a wedding, the grooms were taking their dogs so I suggested my son could go in the dog crate (joke of course) to reduce his ability to be a swine, luckily he was very good.

He started to improve hugely a short while before he turned three as he could better follow verbal reasoning and was able to have greater self control.

As a recently turned five year old he is generally very well behaved, we regularly go out to eat, visit friends, go to parks etc and he is on the whole polite, sensible etc. I know if I have to leave him with my boyfriend or a friend he will be sensible, polite, play nicely etc.

Of course he had his moments, but they are few and far between and he is almost always able to listen and talk to me when I’m explaining why certain things aren’t okay.

He is naturally very confident, confidence and good behaviour can happily exist together.

Teaching your child how to behave appropriately is just as important as valuing their education, teaching them to cross a road etc. Behaving appropriately is a vital skill they will use every day as adults.