To not necessarily want a well-behaved child?

[OneStepAheadOfTheToddler]

Ok, so the title of this thread is perhaps a little more controversial than I was intending it to be.

I was a well-behaved child. Everyone always complimented my parents on how my siblings and I behaved. We were quiet, shy, always stayed by their side, never ran away to explore and, if we ever did anything to show them up, were made to feel so guilty and ashamed about it that we never did it ever again. We hated shouting and raised voices and couldn't bear to disappoint our parents. We would never have dreamt about joining in with the naughty kids at school and weren't very good at making friends, although this is something that we've all got better at as we got older and discovered that actually we do like to enjoy ourselves after all . I was speaking to MIL the other day and she said it was exactly the same for her and her sisters; they wouldn't say boo to a goose, lived in fear of their parents' anger, didn't have much fun and had very little confidence or self-belief. In both cases, our parents could take us anywhere.

DS is not a well-behaved child. He's a sweet, funny toddler who never bites or hits. But he has ants in his pants, can't sit still for more than two minutes, loves doing naughty things for a reaction and yelling and telling off doesn't seem to have any impact. He's not afraid of anything. Whenever we go anywhere, he is off exploring in a trice. He is very sociable, loves other children and will always join in with any game that is going on. We stopped going to toddler groups for a bit since he was always the leader of the 'naughty boys' (with the occasional girl) who would run around the room in circles rather than listening to the lovely music teacher and it was too embarrassing. I have never been complimented on his behaviour and probably never will be. Though apparently he behaves much better in nursery and they're very fond of him. But I can't take him anywhere.

Now, I know there is a balance to be struck - we need to be firmer with DS whereas our parents probably went too far in the other direction. But the holy grail on here seems to be "Oh yes, I can take my children out for a 3 course meal in a Michelin-starred restaurant and they behave perfectly". Is it personality or parenting? And are parents of well-behaved children concerned that their children might struggle later on in life, as we did? If not, because your children are that perfect blend of well-behaved and confident, how have you achieved this? What tips can you give me?

@Casiloco. It does strike me that we have certain expectations for how children should behave which suit certain types of children better than others. They then receive a lot of praise for doing something which comes naturally to them while the other children (who have to make much more of an effort) often fall short. Now clearly all children need to conform to a minimum behavioural standard but it does seem a little harsh to me to characterise a more "lively" child, shall we say, as naughty when actually they might be trying very hard to rein themselves in to meet our standards but they fall short every now and again. Whereas other children will have no difficulty conforming to the required standards because they are in line with their personalities.

One point I do find quite funny is Italian children being held up as a model of good parenting in Britain ! Because they are taken everywhere and families eat together etc. Not because I disagree with this in any way, but I happen to have a few Italian friends and when we go out together we've more than once had disapproving looks, I assume because my friends are too loud and outgoing for our restrained British culture!

@OneStepAheadOfTheToddler It’s unrealistic to expect toddlers to be “Well behaved”. Developmentally they aren’t necessarily able to Be (despite posters on here saying “well mine were perfectly behaved”...don’t believe it). He understands the behaviour expected at nursery and is able to follow that, but is not the same at home. Around 3.5, you have to up your game (I’ve found every time they make a developmental leap I’ve had to do this), so maybe you need to be firmer (give him a choice [you join in with blah or we are going home], boundaries [you can run as far as that tree, but if you go past it, I will bring you back and you will have to sit with me]). And please ignore all the Judge Judys here saying he sounds “naughty”; he’s a 3 year old boy, most of them are mini tornados. I work with them, and never, ever call them naughty. They just haven’t developed impulse control. Look up Family Lives for more info.

One point I do find quite funny is Italian children being held up as a model of good parenting in Britain grin! Because they are taken everywhere and families eat together etc. Not because I disagree with this in any way, but I happen to have a few Italian friends and when we go out together we've more than once had disapproving looks, I assume because my friends are too loud and outgoing for our restrained British culture!

I've spent a lot of time in southern Italy for research and I've always found the children very 'badly' behaved by British standards - as you say, loud, allowed to run around restaurants, etc. But when I've said this on MN I've been assured that all 'European' children are perfectly behaved and that it's only British children who ever play up or cause any kind of disturbance so I must be mistaken!

I live in the south of Italy and can confirm 100% that young Italian children (teenagers are another matter IMO) are a fecking nightmare. There is NO discipline. Just total self-indulgence. Tim Parkes, the travel writer who lives somewhere near Verona iirc, said that in a future lifetime he wants to be reincarnated as an Italian child.

Only yesterday I stood in the cheese counter queue humphing to myself at the appalling behaviour of two lots of kids from two different parents running riot (on scooters obviously) throwing stuff around, climbing in and out of the trolleys, jumping up and down on the seating put there for the elderly to wait on, and nobody (least of all the parents) bats an eyelid. Quite the opposite "aren't you gorgeous" "have a biscuit" "not going to the beach today" etc etc.

I think the upbringing you experienced has clouded your judgement. Good behaviour doesnt have to mean compliance. We all behave differently dependent on the situation even as adults and appropriate behaviour is something thats vital we learn. My DD is fiesty (and that's being generous ) but I can take her to a restaurant and she will behave perfectly well. They can (and should be) a bit of both

I've noticed Italian families seem to dote on babies and children up to the age of four or five - after that there is a certain amount of benign neglect, so the children do their own thing. We've been to many long lunches with Italian family where the adults will sit for hours, but as soon as they've finished eating the kids are off causing havoc!

Sitting at a table waiting for food you maybe dont want to eat and then sitting there some more after you have eaten because the grown ups want to chat is compliance @SabrinaTheTeenageBitch. I was that child, it's not about sitting down for two hours because you want to. Nothing wrong with a bit of compliance, it's a balance. I just dont think instantly obeying every instruction given to you for 18 years is a recipe for a happy, well adjusted adult

Totally agree with Sabrina. I think it’s so rude when we’re out for dinner and other kids are misbehaving! Sure these kids might grow up and enter “high flying careers” and turn out all adjusted but what about all the nuisance they cause?

Being curious and intelligent is not directly related to misbehaving! What a silly thing to say. You can still be intelligent and curious without being an ill behaved child who has no respect or manners for anything