My parents and their views on gay/bi relationships - potential trigger warning - I don't know how to act around them now.

[stillsatonthefence]

NC as it has nothing to do with my usual threads.
I don't know if it matters but - I'm straight and this isn't about me personally.

For some reason the subject of being gay/straight/bi has been brought up when I visited my parents recently.I do not feel any different towards people based on their sexual preferences just as I do not feel any different towards anyone based on their skin colour or nationality and I think it's all a ridiculous prejudice to have.

My DM and DF are only early 50s and consider themselves fairly "young" in their mindset but have such a horrible opinion on it and I don't know how to feel about them after it became obvious a couple of weeks ago.
Things my DF said:

• same sex couples should not be allowed to marry or adopt children. I asked him what difference does it make to him and he said it offends him and marriage is for man and woman.
• He said he's ok with the fact some people are in same sex relationships but he doesn't want to see it or witness any PDA.
• children of same sex couples become gay themselves - when I asked even if it's true what's wrong about that he couldn't justify it
• he doesn't like the mannerisms of gay men and the way they behave
• tried implying gay men want to adopt "little boys" for "a reason" - I shot the conversation down there as I was completely incredulous and angry and pointed out he's clearly mistaken and talking about paedophiles not same sex couples.

Interestingly most of his statements were talking about gay men not lesbians.

My DM stayed rather silent in all this then afterwards when it was just me and her she said she doesn't mind what they choose to do but finds the thought of two men together intimately rather repulsive and icky - I was quite wound up by that point and told her that I'm sure they find the thought of a man and woman together "repulsive" too. She also said if she was adopted she wouldn't have wanted to be brought up by two men or two women - I literally had no words, just said that I don't think any child that gets adopted and welcomed into a loving, stable home and family would give two hoots if the adoptive parents gay, straight or two horned aliens with flames shooting out of their backsides.

The thing is I left completely dumbfounded at the ignorance and prejudice. I keep flashing back to the things my DF said and my mind just goes into a spin at the stupid statements.
I haven't seen them since but have had brief conversations over the phone but for some reason I feel weird about seeing them again (due this weekend) after the conversation we had.

In my head all I can think of is if either of my (currently very young) DCs ever come out as gay/bi or whatever they will be ostracised and treated differently by my parents going on their current opinions and I just want to run for the hills.

How do I proceed with this knowledge? Do I just studiously avoid any attempts at the subject next time I see them? Pretend the conversation didn't happen? Set them straight and tell them off?

AIBU to have such strong feelings about this?

"It’s astonishing that middle-aged people who grew up in the 1980s, and who are not particularly religious can hold such backward and bigoted views."

I don't find it astonishing at all. In fact, I'm astonished that people find it astonishing. Do you never talk to people who hold different views to you? I feel like people must have very small circles where everyone is the same as them.

‘you actually read my posts I am not talking about gay or lesbian couples. I am talking about the use of egg or sperm donation, which just happens to be more prevalent among gay or lesbian couples.’

You’re clearly not aware that there is no anonymous sperm donation anymore in the U.K. then, and that donor conceived children have the right to know who their donor is. Which I wholeheartedly support.
And statistically Heterosexual couples use egg donation and sperm donation far more than LGBT couples.

The main thing is to make sure they don’t poison your kids with this backward, ignorant views. GPs has can be very influential on younger kids.
Kids don’t pop out of the womb homophobic or racist, their families have a huge impact on how they see the world as they grow and develop.

I agree that children should have the right to find out about their biological parents if they want to. I was an egg donor and it was explained to me that any child conceived as a result of my donation might seek me out when they turned 18. However that child's parents aren't obliged to tell them that they were conceived by donated egg and/or sperm so ethically it's still a bit messy.

@Shamoo - as per my post, my understanding is that although the child does have the right to find out about their biological parent, that right is contingent upon their parents telling them about how they were conceived, and whilst it's recommended that parents are open about this, they are not obliged to. So in some cases at least, that legal right is moot.

YANBU to be annoyed by their opinions.
I just can’t understand why people let other people’s preferences concern them so much - it really is the most bizarre thing.
IMO it points to major issues about people’s own inner happiness and conflicts when they have such strong opinions on how strangers choose to live.

It’s funny how people who get up and arms about a child needing to have a mum and dad jump up and down about the 25k odd LGBT families in the U.K. ( many of whose kids do know both biological parents) but not about the fact 1m kids in the U.K. have absolutely no contact with their biological fathers and another 2m kids are being brought up in homes with a mum only/ contact with the bio father.
Then there all the straight couples who have used egg or sperm donation and decided NOT to tell their kids.
And is it 10% of men who are bringing up a kid with their mrs/partner who don’t realise they aren’t actually the biological father.
My kids have two mums bringing them up together in a stable, financially secure home. Is that really worse than how anyone else is raising their kids?
The difference for me is that I’m not looking around at other families or single parents or blended families or whatever and judging them and telling them that they shouldn’t exist the way many people feel the need to judge my family.
Homophobia is homophobia however you excuse it - generational difference, ‘concern’ for the children, ignorance, religious beliefs.

‘It's also quite common for people their age to feel like that about it’

Is it? Maybe if they were in their 70s or older. I also know many people much older who aren’t homophobic

It’s funny how people who get up and arms about a child needing to have a mum and dad jump up and down about the 25k odd LGBT families in the U.K. ( many of whose kids do know both biological parents) but not about the fact 1m kids in the U.K. have absolutely no contact with their biological fathers and another 2m kids are being brought up in homes with a mum only/ contact with the bio father.
Then there all the straight couples who have used egg or sperm donation and decided NOT to tell their kids.
And is it 10% of men who are bringing up a kid with their mrs/partner who don’t realise they aren’t actually the biological father.
My kids have two mums bringing them up together in a stable, financially secure home. Is that really worse than how anyone else is raising their kids?
The difference for me is that I’m not looking around at other families or single parents or blended families or whatever and judging them and telling them that they shouldn’t exist the way many people feel the need to judge my family.
Homophobia is homophobia however you excuse it - generational difference, ‘concern’ for the children, ignorance, religious beliefs

Sorry completely disagree- you only have to look on the threads related to surrogacy to see that a lot of people don’t agree with babies being passed over from biological parents, ultimately where the wants of an adult couple outweigh the needs of a child. Also see how much sympathy single parents get if their partner has left them, it’s clearly not an optimum situation.
As I’ve stated it’s usually always children brought up by their biological parents who make statements that: genetics, race, sex don’t matter- tbh we don’t know enough about the long term affects. If you think though that children whose fathers walk out on them have no issues later down the line, I would strongly disagree.
Family situations are not perfect- I consider myself a well rounded stable person, my mum died when I was a child and I was raised by my dad. Ok I turned out ok, but i don’t therefore think it doesn’t matter if a child has a mother in their life.
It’s really not a gay, lesbian, infertile issue, it’s a child’s rights issue.

Lora7 and if you don’t believe in god?

‘ It's about morals. Deep down everybody knows it's wrong. It's not homophobic, it's simply the fact it's against God's design. If God wanted people to chose any sexuality, we would be born with two sets of genitals. But we are not.’

Ah good, the religious bigots have arrived.
Well, at least now we have protection for civil rights in this country so your opinions no longer have any influence over who I love or have a relationship with.
‘Two sets of genital s’ LOL.

People saying that getting angry with them isn’t the way to change their minds are right. People saying that the best way to change their minds is through civilised conversation are wrong, however.

There is no way to change these people. Quoting actual facts, studies, statistics to them will make no difference: they don’t care in the slightest about the reality of the situation. They just want to hold their shitty views and not have them challenged.

I guess it’s up to you how you proceed from now on. It’s different for me as I’m bisexual - I would not willingly be around anyone who thought I was less than a human being deserving of human rights. You may choose to distance yourself from them; you may decide to compartmentalise.

And I echo a previous post (or posts) that this isn’t a ‘difference of opinion’ and those who suggest otherwise need to take a long look at themselves. All of the things the OP’s parents said were lies and/or stereotypes, not ‘opinions’.

It's about morals. Deep down everybody knows it's wrong. It's not homophobic, it's simply the fact it's against God's design. If God wanted people to chose any sexuality, we would be born with two sets of genitals. But we are not.

I’m always amused by the ignorance these people display towards their own religion. If your theory is that God created everything, including animals, why are we capable of homosexuality at all? Bleat on about it being a choice if you will: many animals, without consciousness/morals/etc. display homosexual behaviour in the wild. Re your point about two sets of genitals - why exactly are males designed with prostate glands (which give pleasure) in the bottom, I wonder? Perhaps God is a bit more flexible than you give him credit for. Female pleasure also is usually stimulated by contact with the clitoris, which is external and has nothing to do with reproduction. God designed us this way.

Aside from all of that, the basic principle of most religions is love and tolerance and care. You aren’t religious, however much you might like to think you are.

@whattimeisitrightnow oh god, the whole "take a good hard look at yourself" because people don't condemn others as strongly as you do is so tired. Their views may be abhorrent to me but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to hold them.

‘. Their views may be abhorrent to me but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to hold them.’

Usually when peoples views are abhorrent to me - like racists- I avoid them entirely, but these are OPs parents so that’s trickier.
Of course everyone can have their own views but it’s one thing being a Tory or Labour supporter, or believing in god or not and entirely another being homophobic

@Shamoo

I do understand how it works and I still think it is morally unjustifiable.

Meeting at 18 simply isnt good enough. Not only is it a really long time to wait, leading to the feelings above, what happens when they do meet them? If the donor isnt interested then that could hurt their feelings. If they are interested and develop a relationship that could hurt the feelings of their parents.

Also many people go abroad for sperm donation or import sperm from countries where anonymous donation is still legal, like Denmark (this is the case in all 3 of the couples I know).

MN is strange. If you suggest infertile couples adopt, it's all 'But it's natural to want a biological connection to your child'. But when we talk about donor conception it's all 'Biology doesnt matter, all you need is love'.

By having a child through a donor rather than adopting, you are highlighting the importance you feel of having a biological connection to the child. However when it comes to the child itself not knowing their other bio parent, suddenly this importance doesnt exist for them.

MN is strange completely. When there’s talk of surrogacy, everyone’s up in arms about women’s body’s aren’t for sale, but then when a lesbian or gay couple are the recipient I guess there’s no issue.
This isn’t about the adults: gay, straight, bi- it’s about children.

www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11935701

Apparently the kids ( in LGBT families) are alright after all...

My dad is similar in his thinking op though not as extreme. It frustrates me so much when he starts sprouting these ignorant views. I used to argue and get really annoyed with him now i dont engage at all if it comes up i tell him i dont agree with his views and dont want to listen to them. You won't change their mind but absolutely tell them that you won't tolerate them expressing their views to your children.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers ‘ This isn’t about the adults: gay, straight, bi- it’s about children.’

Absolutely agree, and our ( non surrogate you’ll be happy to hear) kids with 2 mums, married and in a financial secure and loving home appear to be absolutely thriving.

My DF aired some views about BLM I front of my kids that I didn’t think appropriate and I shut him right down. He’s entitled to his views but I’m not having him spout stuff in front of them. I also had a good long debate about why what he was saying was borderline racist. I think he heard me. But regardless he won’t be saying it again in front of my kids. And if I genuinely thought he was racist then we’d be spending a lot less time with him.

@Fishisjumpin

www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11935701

Apparently the kids ( in LGBT families) are alright after all...

Sadly ignorant homophobes have a low reading age

I can absolutely understand your anger and puzzlement. It must be very hard for you - I am assuming they were good parents to you and that you normally have a decent relationship with them. It must be very hard to get your head round the fact that two such important people in your life hold views that you find abhorrent.

My grandmother held similar views about black people - she was otherwise a lovely gran to me. I had to try and get my mind round it and tried to look at why she might feel as she did. She lived in a tall Edwardian terraced house in Battersea from the day she married. When she and her late OH bought it, immigration was not as prevalent, and the street was full of white families, like her own. Gradually landlords took over the houses and turned them into flats, which were mostly occupied by black families, until she found herself the only white person on the street. She was a frightened little old lady whose friends and previous neighbours had moved on. This was at a time when racial mixing was very rare, so her new neighbours kept themselves to themselves. I tried to understand how hard she found that and to respond accordingly - not with shock or blame, but just gently chipping away, as I knew her to be a decent person at heart. It was difficult, but I felt the best way forward was to try and understand - she was widowed and lonely and frightened and felt a bit adrift in her own neighbourhood.

I guess that might be one way forward for you - to try and understand what it is that motivates them to hold such views - fear is often the prime mover of prejudice. They are frightened of anything that threatens their "moral code" and their concept of "normality".

There is nothing wrong with their finding homosexual activity puzzling - they are entitled to their views ad thoughts, whatever we might think about that. And it would be very hard to shake those views. Maybe the most important thing is to look at how they treat those around them and whether their prejudices cause them to behave towards their fellows in an unacceptable way. If that is not a problem then maybe you could let the subject drop. You have, quite rightly, told them what you think about their views; but nothing is to be gained by repeatedly coming back to it. You need to have cordial relations with them for your and your family's benefit.

It is worth asking yourself what the prevalent vibe was on such matters when they were growing up - you have grown up when attitudes have thankfully moved on and that is engraved in your mindset. But their's might have been a very different experience. I can just remember when homosexual activity was actually illegal! Hearing that as a child cannot but enter one's mindset; just as did all the other things that you learned as a child.

I know there will be homosexual Mums on here who will find my suggestion that you let the subject drop now unacceptable. But you have said your piece and quite rightly expressed your view on it all - it is hard to change views that are ingrained from childhood; and the one positive in all of this is that they do not seem to have brought you up to have such views - hence your shock and discomfort about discovering how they feel.

"Usually when peoples views are abhorrent to me - like racists- I avoid them entirely, but these are OPs parents so that’s trickier.
Of course everyone can have their own views but it’s one thing being a Tory or Labour supporter, or believing in god or not and entirely another being homophobic"

It's not always that simple though, is it? The vast majority of the world looks down on homosexuality. If you come from a country where those views are commonly held, it's not always as simple as just avoiding all the racists or homophobes.

Besides which, I find most people have some unpleasant views. They may not come out and say "send them back to where they came from" but a lot of people have ignorant stereotypes in their minds. They may be more pleasant to listen to, but it doesn't mean that they're not racist. I suppose if you come from a big, multicultural city there may be less of it, but I meet very few people who don't have prejudices in their mind when they meet me.

"when a lesbian or gay couple are the recipient I guess there’s no issue." - this is discussed all the time on here and most people are against it in those cases too, ime.