To think that children wouldn’t actually prefer happy parents living separately

[talesfrommyancestors]

I actually would like to be proved wrong here so it’s not a provocative title, but I do think it’s something of a myth that children would like their parents to divorce and to live apart.

My own experience is that when this happens parents move on to new relationships quite quickly and this is confusing and difficult for children. Then obviously there’s financial considerations and practicalities (living in two homes.)

I’m obviously not talking about relationships that must end because of abuse but the sort of gone stale relationships where parents are urged to split because the children will want it.

I think the major issue isn't divorce itself, it's the actions of the parents afterwards. You can be separated and still put your children first, as my ex and myself do. If you divorce and then turn nasty on each other and have multiple new partners then yes that is not ideal. But if you can do it amicably and communicate well then it's easier.

I’m being passionate towards my friends then blimey

My parents never held hands or cuddled or kissed. I personally find that irritating and smothering and I wouldn’t want to do it in front of children. Fair enough teens in their first relationship but men and women in their forties?

My childhood wouldn’t have been as awful if my parents had split up. My mum was really really awful, my siblings and my dad all have physical and psychological scars from her. If he had left sooner we wouldn’t have experienced as much abuse and would probably be more well rounded and healthier adults.

A parents relationship teaches their children what a normal relationship looks like. If you want to encourage your children to remain in an unhappy relationship go ahead.

As someone who grew up in an abusive home my reaction when something bad happens, doesn’t go my way etc is a very very strong urge to just hit someone and verbally abuse them because thats how I was taught to react as a child. It also meant when an ex started hitting me instead of leaving I did as I was taught and just hit back.

Definitely disagree with you OP. My parents split when I was 8/9ish. Theirs was neither a 'just gone stale' nor a particularly abusive relationship, but just a bad match/partnership. He was on the neglectful/selfish side, though. Neither jumped into new relationships - mum had a short spell with a bf but been single ever since, dad just wasn't around and no known partner before he passed away. I always wished my mum had had the means to leave earlier, it was horrible watching them both miserable and grow in spite towards each other. Ever since they eventually split, I've vowed that I would never stay in such a relationship for the sake of the kids, because the extra few years they did spend together were far more negative for me.

But its all down to personal experience, isn't it?

I can see what you mean going off mn with people splitting up getting a new partner moving in quickly children meeting each other whilst still getting their head round a split and then the new couple have a baby despite the fact there is 4/5 existing children to consider and then wondering why they are suddenly having problems moaning about maintenance or the lack of bedrooms from the kids but that's only a minority. Most take care when introducing new partners and are together a good while before introducing them to their kids its just they don't tend to post. Many that do have on going issues which they post about. The fact is if they are in a unhappy unhealthy relationship far better to split up and co-parent.

My parents separating earlier would have been putting us kids before their reputations, their appearances, the pageantry of a perfect family that they thought they needed to uphold. They shotgun married and stayed together because that's what was expected of them and they feared becoming outcasted if they didn't.

It turned out they were wrong. There were issues, but they both had the full support of their families. My father's mother even helped me get to school after I moved in with him mid-term and it was decided I would finish the term at my old school. Maybe it was changing time or that people were just grateful they weren't negatively spiraling around each other and taking us kids with them.

Maybe a romantic relationship isn't everyone's top priority, but it's very easy without the love to find the hard times that much harder and fall into unhealthy patterns within the relationship, family, and as an individual. There is a reason 'mother's little helpers' self-medication have always been popular, being stuck in an unhealthy relationship just because you have kids fucks you up. I'm pretty sure that's part of why there is an uptick in divorces once the kids leave home...

@talesfrommyancestors

I’m being passionate towards my friends then blimey

My parents never held hands or cuddled or kissed. I personally find that irritating and smothering and I wouldn’t want to do it in front of children. Fair enough teens in their first relationship but men and women in their forties?

Well obviously the passionate part is different with a partner than a friend I was merely illustrating it didn't need to be anything sexual.

I actually find it incredibly sad you're no affectionate with your partner in front of your children. Its surely not smothering, it's just part of a loving relationship.

The issue comes when the parents are not happier separately. My parents split up when I was 11. My mum had a full on nervous break down and ended up in a psychiatric unit for months. My dad ended up abusing me. Now ok that's a very extreme example but actually, while our lives weren't great when they were together, it was at least stable. When they split there was so much animosity, neither of them was a fit parent alone (again it hadn't been great when there was 2 of them but they muddled through). It definitely made life a thousand times worse for me. So, while it may be controversial, I think that if splitting up is going to put your kids through hell then it's better to stick with it until they are grown. If you're going to end a relationship with DC involved you have to be strong enough to support them emotionally through it (obvious exemption to that would be DV of couse). They shouldn't have to support you. As a pp said, you can't generalise because every family is different.

My childhood would have been transformed for the better if my parents had split and I hadn’t had to live with my father.

I think OP would prefer an echo chamber for her own thoughts as op clearly isn't taking any of our replies on board.

Our kids like us showing affection towards each other Tales - the toddler often asks to join in the cuddle if he catches us having one! Having parents that clearly love each other is very comforting for kids. My older kids appreciate that me and their step dad are happy - it actually matters to them. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think children always have aspects of their childhood they're critical of the their parents over.

People who say they wish now that their parents had split might have felt differently if that split had left them with a bitter parent or poor or with a wicked step mother or step or half siblings that took all their mother's attention or living with a parent with a succession of bad choice partners.

The kinds of parents who create a toxic environment because they can't behave decently are hardly going to become model parents just because they've split up

I think kids prefer their parents to be together, obviously not if abusive relationship. I feel sorry for kids who'se parents split up and they then get ferried between two households, and then parents get new partners etc. Must be awful for them. My neighbours on both sides did this and the kids look so sad. On one side, the Dad only takes the son out, not his daughter, so she hardly sees him. So that relationship with her Dad is lost. Then the Mum has boyfriends overnight. Must be awful for them.

Tiny, it isn’t sad, I just really don’t want my hand held, to be ‘cuddled’ and so on. I’ve had this discussion on MN before.

If people wish to do that in the privacy of their own homes then that’s fine but I don’t think anyone should be obliged to do so and I don’t think it signals a healthy relationship. My own parents had a lovely respectful relationship without constantly grabbing hold of one another!

Element of playing devils advocate vintage but to be honest a lot of the posts do sound as if people just desperately want to believe them to be true.

I have literally just split with my partner of 12 years this morning. There is absolutely no abuse but there is also no love, no passion, no shared interests, no laughter, no affection. My dc will be upset when we tell them but I know it will be best for them in the long run. I feel like I’m suffocating in this relationship and I’m not taking good care of myself. I want them to know me as the fun loving adventurous person I once was, not the shell I am now. I grew up with a crap model of a relationship and I am repeating the pattern. I am determined to break it so my children know to never settle for less.

My parents were both having affairs before separating. No physical abuse or lots arguing but awful atmosphere that went on for years. I was glad when they did separate.

My parents never held hands or cuddled or kissed. I personally find that irritating and smothering and I wouldn’t want to do it in front of children. Fair enough teens in their first relationship but men and women in their forties?

That might be why you’re happy to stay in a dull relationship for your kids and think there’s worse things than for your kids to end up in a dull relationship.

My grandparents held hands frequently. My grandma would fuss over my grandad in a way that it was clear she loved him. When my grandad died, my grandma’s anguish was heartbreaking. It still distresses me to think of her in the funeral home on the day of my grandad’s funeral. She speaks to him every night still because she misses him and she lost someone she loves, not just tolerates. I’ve never doubted that my grandparents loved each other deeply, it’s not about passion as in shagging on the kitchen floor with an audience but how you interact with each other, how you talk to each other. I’ve also got family members that play at being happy and you can just tell the difference. You can’t fake being in love. Based on what my grandparents had, what I witnessed with them, that was the bar I set for my relationships.

Meruem I agree, stability is crucial -- some couples get to a point where they cannot maintain stability together and some can't do it separated without a wider stable support network. Sadly some parents, together or separated, put too much burden of emotional support on their kids.

Alloverthegrapevine That's possible, but all the women my father dated after my mother weren't violent or addicts like she was. I never had to see any of them arrested. If he could have gotten over the fear of his parents' judgement sooner (we're talking a grown ass man who hid his ashtrays when they came to visit), I think we all would have been happier. He probably would have had less debt too if he hadn't had to pay so much of my mother's legal expenses over the years and the succession of 'fresh start' houses. He became much more stable divorced so I've no reason to think he wouldn't have been if he'd done it rather than buy a bigger house for us to be miserable in.

I also think when people split, men get off the hook off bring up their children. They are no longer there all the time, they cant possibly fulfill the role they should be doing.

raspberry if you LIKE holding hands, go for it. I’m just saying that if you don’t it isn’t a sign of not wanting to show affection. My husband is actually a hand holder and it drives me mad - try pushing a pram and holding hands!

As plenty of other people have pointed out it totally depends on the circumstances of the marriage.

I also think there's a difference between the way children react at the time the split is happening and what they see in retrospect. I split from my ex five years ago. My DD (who was four when we split) has generally taken this in her stride but until quite recently said quite often that she wanted me and Daddy to get back together. In the past year or so she has changed her tune on this considerably and now appears to recognise that things work much better with us separated. I'm quite sure that if you ask her age 20 if she would have preferred mum and dad stay together the answer would be quite different.

If you ask most kids "would you like your parents to separate?" they will say no. If you ask them; "would you like to remain in a home for the next 15 years with two people who can barely tolerate one another or who fight audibly every night," you might get a different answer.

By the way I don't think people are saying that its automatically better for the children for a couple to split. Everyone recognises its traumatic for children. Its more intended as a counterweight to that kneejerk argument about people "staying together for the children" at almost any cost. Because if pursued to its logical conclusion this would mean that no-one was ever allowed to leave a marriage, with obviously dire outcomes for both parties and their children. There are obviously many shades from "mildly bored" to "horribly abusive" and every case has to be taken on its own merits.

My own parents had a lovely respectful relationship without constantly grabbing hold of one another!

You don't have to grab each other, that's quote a melodramatic way of describing it. But seeing genuine affection in a relationship is a positive thing for children whether thats a compliment, hand hold or hug.

Those who pretend and maintain non affectionate relationships whilst staying for the sake of the children are setting the bar for their children's future relationships very low.

Short term little ones can find it confusing. Long term, my kids are happier and healthier

Yes and I think a dull relationship which nonetheless has mutual respect can be affectionate. It is more this idea that couples have to be constantly touching I was disagreeing with - I personally think how you speak to and about one another is far more important than whether you hold hands or kiss or not.