To think that children wouldn’t actually prefer happy parents living separately

[talesfrommyancestors]

I actually would like to be proved wrong here so it’s not a provocative title, but I do think it’s something of a myth that children would like their parents to divorce and to live apart.

My own experience is that when this happens parents move on to new relationships quite quickly and this is confusing and difficult for children. Then obviously there’s financial considerations and practicalities (living in two homes.)

I’m obviously not talking about relationships that must end because of abuse but the sort of gone stale relationships where parents are urged to split because the children will want it.

Until you have walked the road you have no idea. Me and my ex partner got together in our teens, had two children in our mid 20s and split at 30, 7 years ago. The kids were 5 and 4 at the time.
We had gotten together very young and just grown apart, no other reason. We split amicably.
After 2 years I started dating DP and my ex met his new wife. Neither of us introduced them to our children until we'd been dating for over 6 months. We didn't move in together for another 2 years after that. Until the children had a strong relationship with their step-parents.
Me and dp and ex and his wife have very good relationships and we call each other friends. We went to their wedding and they will be coming to ours.
My dp has a daughter who lives with us full time. She is their step-sister but also my daughters best friend. They have an amazing bond.
We also have a baby together now and all the kids are incredibly happy and so are me and my ex partner. The last thing I would want is for him or me to be miserable.
You only have one shot at life, why live it in misery?

I know a few couples who’ve stayed together for the kids and lived amicably, with a pleasant atmosphere at home.

The problem is that one party always fell for someone else. Most young and middle-aged adults want a fulfilling romantic relationship, not a flatmate. Human nature.

@talesfrommyancestors

I don’t think being in a dull relationship would be the worst thing that could happen to my son or daughter, any more than working in a dull job would be.

But how often does this happen? There's a huge swathe of things between Abuse on the one side and just-a-bit-indifferent-to-each-other on the other.

eg, you see people on here commenting that their DH is their best friend, they get on etc but it's not really a romantic relationship etc. Or they live separate lives and come together for the children. Sure, if that works for the parents involved, then arguably, it's good for the kids too.

But the problem is that most of us can't live with people we don't care about. Unless you live in a 20 bedroom mansion, there's interaction and daily involvement all the time. So if you don't get on, enjoy each other's company etc, then how on earth is it possible to pretend this is okay?

The best thing I have ever done for my children is telling their dad to leave. My children are so much happier, especially my eldest who was bullied by his dad. Why should he have to put up with stuff like that in his own home?

I hate it how some people think the only way a child can be happy is for their parents to be together. It’s so narrow minded.

Children who live in 1 dysfunctional home where the parents are still together are a million times more hard done by than children who don’t live with both parents but who have at least 1 normal stable household.

My mother split up 3 times, my father 4.

I cannot express the feeling of relief when we were told they were splitting, most of the times.

That doesn’t mean their partners weren’t lovely, in fact I am still very close to one of them 30 years after their split.

But the level of unhappy tension in the house the year before the split was always so palpable that the knowledge it would be over soon was like a weight lifted.

A bit like a boil that needs lancing. Not nice when it’s happening but so much better afterwards.

I agree that most of the time it's better for children if their parents stay together.

The exceptions being if home life has become toxic or dangerous due to abuse, daily heated arguments in front of children or repeated infidelity/ emotional abuse meaning that the parents living together causes such anguish to one parent that if affects their ability to parent properly / severely affects their mental health.

I know someone whose mum stayed married to his dad, even though his Dad was a serial adulterer, till all the kids grew up
My Dsis is taking this route it really angers me, she is foolish thinking the DC are unaffected by his controlling paranoia, awful things are happening in their life she believes they are unrelated. Her bright intelligent DD who intended to be a teacher didn't get enough points, she gave up caring in 6th year, her DS is socially awkward and has been bullied in school and online.
I despair at her thinking.

I know that my children would have far preferred us to have stayed together. I mean, who wouldn't? And it's been tough during lockdown as they haven't been able to see much of exH who is shielding.

That said, things were untenable as they were and in the end I had a breakdown. I couldn't cope with living with exH, who is a pleasant man but in the end was basically a cocklodger. I tried everything and could not make it work. So from a personal point of view I know that I did absolutely everything I could and I was right to call it a day, for my own sanity.

That was a few years ago and either ex nor I are in a new relationship at this stage. I'd like one ultimately, but I'm in no hurry and I definitely don't want to live with a man again, certainly not while the children are still living at home.

ExH and I are able to carry on our parenting pretty much as we did before: we agree on almost everything, we talk things through when we don't agree, and there's mutual respect. We do things together with the children (covid permitting obvs) and have holidayed together. I can stand him for a week or two .

Do I wish things were different? You bet. Is this the best I can manage under the circumstances? It is, yes. I was a shell of a person by the end of our relationship, completely unable to cope. Things are going much better now.

It depends. I agree that if there are children, it makes it more important not just to act impulsively and pursue a whirlwind romance with little planning. But if the parents are really in a bad emotional state, and it's affecting their moods with their children, then it may well be better for the children if they split up.

Plenty of posters have written about what it's like being a child in an unhappy household with bickering parents. I think it might also be worth considering what it's like to be a teenager or young adult and suddenly find out that the happy home you thought you had was a lie, that they weren't really fond of each other at all, that they didn't actually enjoy the family experience they were pretending to enjoy. That can also be pretty damaging. Not speaking for myself here, but for relative.

My children were relieved when we split. As teens now my oldest especially is emphatic in his description of how glad he was when the arguments stopped and his Dad moved was removed out. The youngest says she can't really remember but having witnessed the stress her Dad's behaviour still brings on me and sometimes them she too says she's very glad we don't all live together. However I have not moved on to new relationships and their Dad for all his faults has not introduced them to any of his extensive series of girlfriends. So maybe that's partly why.

I do think that blending families is often a mistake and not good for the in situ children, I think doing that contributes far more to kids being unhappy than a split where they still see both parents but no one else gets moved in.

I think it might also be worth considering what it's like to be a teenager or young adult and suddenly find out that the happy home you thought you had was a lie, that they weren't really fond of each other at all, that they didn't actually enjoy the family experience they were pretending to enjoy. That can also be pretty damaging. Not speaking for myself here, but for relative.

I posted earlier in relation to this situation. Several of my friends parents finally split when they were adults after staying for the children and its affected each of them way more than those whose parents divorced whilst they were children.

All of them have expressed sadness when reminiscing about events from their childhood as they are now all tinged with the knowledge that the event wasn't real. Its made them all question lots of what they remember as they cannot be sure if it was a genuinely happy event ot if their parents were basically playing make believe and pretending. Many of them also resent how often their parents lied to them and wonder frequently if they are telling the truth about other situations. They find it hard to distinguish whether its just another lie if that makes sense?

My relationship was abusive, but to be fair my children would never have known it until they were older. Despite loving their nee step parents they probably do wish their parents were still together. But what can I say to them? Daddy didn't like Mummy going out anywhere or being thin so he would give her the silent treatment when they weren't there, secretly drench her food in butter and rape her when you were asleep? I'll have a hard time ever explaining that to them. All they saw (and still do see) is two people being pleasant to each other at handover. I still tolerate a lot of controlling behaviour and pettiness from him, but I stay calm and friendly because of the kids.

My parents on the other hand, they split when I was an adult. They fell out of love with each other years and years before. I'd never once seen them be affectionate toward each other, never saw them sit in the same room out of choice, never saw them having fun. I remember being a child and not wanting to grow up and be an adult because it meant I no longer have fun. When they finally split (my Dad ended up having an affair), my life was still affected. It didn't matter that I was in my 20s. My family home was sold and I have to split my Christmases etc. I see no advantage to waiting until I was older.

Cross post with @TinySleepThief . Indeed, it's quite hurtful to think my parents didn't enjoy our time as a family. It feels sad.

I desperately wanted my parents to divorce as a teen. My mother was hugely unhappy and let me know it all the time. I literally heard everything, repeatedly. Dad was blissfully unaware until I told him last year! They’re still together, she’s afraid of losing her lifestyle despite being miserable 24/7. Mother and I are low/no contact now although I see dad regularly, he’s reallY not the Horrible nightmare I was told... only took me 25+ years to work that out! Totally destroyed our relationship for a long time. I honestly thought I was the only teen who wished their parents would divorce 😞

@BiarritzCrackers

I am separated, so can't be unbiased here, but when exH and I were looking at this and trying to decide whether to live together as 'friends' or properly separate, I did a lot of reading about impact of divorce at various stages of children's lives, in terms of attachment, development etc.

Some of the things that helped sway us to separate when we did (DS was 8):

The impact of parents' divorcing doesn't stop when children become young adults. You can't have your child go off to university or whatever at 18, and not expect ending the marriage not to have a significant impact on them. They have so much upheaval in those years, I wouldn't want to add to it then by them realising their parents had been pretending for a decade.

You want your marriage to model a good relationship. DS would have seen parents who do not share a bedroom, are not affectionate, don't really touch. That's not great for his understanding of how relationships work.

So you could keep living together, but make it clear to any DC that it's not an "in love" marriage, but while you are still in the same house, the DC might still hold hope, and it could all get a bit confusing. If one of us did meet someone significant a few years down the line, then the separation of homes would have to happen then, which would just be putting of that situation.

I actually think calling quits on a marriage earlier, before it deteriorates utterly into loathing and resentment, might produce better outcomes for many couples. While some marriages can recover from years-long bad patches, from other people's stories as well as my own, it does seem that when the trouble starts, it generally heads in one direction. I think people should be less averse to relationship counselling as soon as issues start; this could help save relationships, but also can help end relationships constructively.

I agree with this. I think many children haven't been damaged by the divorce, so much as damaged by the relationship between the parents prior to the divorce.

My parents were unhappily married. No abuse, no shouting, it was just obvious they weren’t happy together.
Such a relief when they split when I was 14. Wish they’d done it sooner.

This questioned has been subject to a number of studies. The pretty conclusive finding is that function trumps form. In other words a happy family led by one parent is better than an unhappy one led by two parents.

NB I’m not going to reference studies and evidence, if asked.

I think it might also be worth considering what it's like to be a teenager or young adult and suddenly find out that the happy home you thought you had was a lie, that they weren't really fond of each other at all, that they didn't actually enjoy the family experience they were pretending to enjoy. That can also be pretty damaging. Not speaking for myself here, but for relative.

Why does it have to be a lie tho? Can’t the parents still be fond of each other as friends and co parents and still enjoy family occasions together? H and I are separated romantically, but still live together and co parent. The only difference is we don’t have sex and the children have no knowledge of anything like that anyway. Our family experiences are not lies and we still all love each other. When the children are less dependent on us we will probably live apart but it won’t make anything that has gone before less real.

@Lockdownfatigue

I don’t agree at all. Kids will definitely pick up on parental unhappiness and an unhealthy view of relationships will affect then for the rest of their lives.

I resent my mother hugely for staying with my father. And feel it’s a massive waste of both their lives. That’s quite a burden for children, to carry responsibility for their parents’ lives being unfulfilled.

Also an unhappy relationship always means an unhappy atmosphere.

When I was considering separating from my dcs’ dad I asked myself whether I would want my daughter in a relationship like this when she grew up. No, it would break my heart. My ex and I are still very good friends and coparent well. Neither of us have met anyone else and he still joins us on holidays and day trips sometimes. That’s much, much better than arguments and tension.

Totally agree.

@talesfrommyancestors

I’m being passionate towards my friends then blimey

My parents never held hands or cuddled or kissed. I personally find that irritating and smothering and I wouldn’t want to do it in front of children. Fair enough teens in their first relationship but men and women in their forties?

And this is why you haven't IMHO thought this through, your parents relationship has moulded yours. You build relationships in a way you are shown, I'd rather children saw warmth and affection than to be middle aged and find that closeness irritating, that to me is a relationship block and learned behaviour.

I think it depends what you think a marriage is for and should be like. If you were content with, say, a sexless marriage then I can see that you’d think splitting up for none abusive reasons would be a bit mad. But lots of people aren’t happy to just be parents and nothing more. They want to be in a relationship and feel the absence and I don’t think you can make that happen. To an extent it’s there or it’s not.

As long as you think about your kids they’ll be fine if you split. And people would don’t probably weren’t any better at parenting when coupled up.

You refer to pram pushing - if you have v small kids I can see this’d be more confusing but once your kids are school age or older they are less all-consuming and your relationship comes into its own.

Why does it have to be a lie tho?

I cant speak from my own experience but from what friends have said its looking back when they have the knowledge that events of their childhood seem tainted. They feel like most of their childhood is a lie because their parents were pretending about something so huge (bring happily married) that these events were basically not real as they cannot determine whether or not their parents were acting. You may feel it wont affect your children but from my friends experiences it will devastating.

My parents are still happily married, but I think my sister and I would still rather they had split up in our early teens so my dad was resident parent.

Our mum had bad mental health issues and a laser focus on work, which together made her a bad parent for two isolated teen girls. My dad was more on the permissive and generous side (which does have its downsides), but he was also more genuinely invested in our interests and needs. (he showed an interest in all of our daft teen girl music choices and helped me with spot treatments for example, and so long as there was no harm in something he didn't object to us doing it). We'd have muddled along together well as a three, where with my mum involved, issues were exacerbated.