To think that children wouldn’t actually prefer happy parents living separately

[talesfrommyancestors]

I actually would like to be proved wrong here so it’s not a provocative title, but I do think it’s something of a myth that children would like their parents to divorce and to live apart.

My own experience is that when this happens parents move on to new relationships quite quickly and this is confusing and difficult for children. Then obviously there’s financial considerations and practicalities (living in two homes.)

I’m obviously not talking about relationships that must end because of abuse but the sort of gone stale relationships where parents are urged to split because the children will want it.

Absolutely not.

I witnessed my parents relationship decline over 2-3 years and it was horrible.

They sat in separate rooms in the evening, hardly spoke to each other and it was so awkward and a horrible environment.

No child deserves that.

Also, what idea of life is that giving your child? That you should stay with someone to make others happy?

I've been single for 14 years and not had a live in boyfriend in all that time. So I feel you are making assumptions about the motivations of women who leave.

My kids were too young to make the decision. Only I can know the abuse I protected them from.
But they are happy, healthy and doing well now because of my decision.

Even though my situation was worse than just say growing apart, ir getting the ick, i believe mothers are far more likely to cling on, afraid to split up, (constructing all sorts of narratives that make sticking their head in the sand "best for the children") than they are to leave so that they can be free to have another relationship.

Mothers who leave decent men just to line up new potential relationships are few and far between. Leaving is hard. Splitting up is a nightmare.
I dont think it is done lightly. The opposite is the problem. So many people who should split up dont or cant.

@talesfrommyancestors

That does rather depend on their new partners, though doesn’t it!

The issue is clearly parents being selfish, whether that’s in or out of a relationship.

I agree completely, but I also think that it takes both parents to be selfless in order for it to work, staying together or raising children apart. In situations where one parent gives more than the other that imbalance can't be prevented by the parent doing more - the selfish one will always 'win' because their shitty ways will define the relationship.

The only reason Ex and I parent well is because we've both behaved respectfully and kindly towards one another. DS1 has asked me questions like "do you still love my Dad" when he was young and rather than say "nope, glad the fucker's gone" I told him that I'll always love his Dad for giving me him. We have Christmas and Birthdays together, we give up time and energy to enable the other parent to be front and centre at times when it's important, we've both married partners who adore DS, and it shows.

Interesting! I know splitting is always seen as a good thing, but there is other side. If the parents get on ok then the kids may well prefer it. I have certainly heard people talk of the painful impact on kids of the family splitting, but then I don't know how acrimonious those splits were. I guess how the split is handled will be a big influence on how if affects the kids.

There is also the financial side you mention. It is very expensive for kids to start out in life now. And you will inevitably have less to give them if you have to run two households.

If the parents are miserable staying together - even if not arguing - that may effect the kids. But if the parents don't really want to start a new relationship with anyone else, then I guess they may decide it suits everyone just to carry on as they are.

A lot of these are clearly from abusive relationships though, where I agree leaving is a must. I’m really talking about two nice people who have fallen out of love, or discover they have little in common, or similar.

Mine split when I was 4 and that was really difficult for me and my sibling. But we were all much better off without them fighting and being unhappy. They did find new partners pretty quickly, but I ended up with 4 excellent parents and two examples of good and loving relationships- as well as one terrible warning!

I do wonder if it would have been different if either of them had gone on to have more children. I get on well with my step-siblings, but I'm not sure how half-siblings would have been.

I rarely hear advice to divorce for the kids because a relationship is "stale". Usually, it's when there is loathing and fighting and unhealthy (which are not always abusive) dynamics involved.

Really, it depends on a lot of factors and would need to include the other options many go through. On-again-off-again separations can be incredibly confusing even when the parents resolve to live together again. Parents who technically 'live' together, but one is always gone with 'work' but you hear differently from adults who think it's going to go over your head.

Also, while I agree it can be confusing and hurt when a parent enters a new relationship, particularly if they change for their new partner, not everyone after a separation jumps into a new relationship. My mother didn't get involved in one at all after divorce (she's quite happy with her FWBs, which I wouldn't have known about until I was an adult if I hadn't overheard her on the phone once).

I really wish my parents had fully separated sooner. I think we would all have been happier if they'd hadn't started trying "fresh starts" and whatever styling marriage trick they kept doing. It always ended worst than the start. What my siblings and I needed was stability and our supposedly two-parent family had none of it even when it looked picture perfect on the outside. Once they were finally fully separated with separate permanent homes, we finally got some solid group though with everything over the years, it never really was home to me.

@talesfrommyancestors

A lot of these are clearly from abusive relationships though, where I agree leaving is a must. I’m really talking about two nice people who have fallen out of love, or discover they have little in common, or similar.

It would be a huge burden to put on your child's shoulders that they stayed together despite not loving each other because they thought you would prefer it.

Surely seeing both your parents in a hapoy, fulfilling relationship with someone they loved is much healthier for everyone?

I disagree but I feel that parents do have a certain responsibility to try and be happy together for the sake of their children. If there’s no mistreatment and it’s just that “the sparks gone”, then I think you sort of owe it to your kids to try whatever you can to get it back. If it’s really gone then I think you’re better split up and happy, but it’s a shame to give up without a fight.

No one was abusive at all, in my case. They were just unhappy. Watching your parents be unhappy is a pretty miserable experience.

If the parents can live together happily and amicably, then I'm sure the children will be happier than if the parents split up. However, I doubt that living happily and amicably with someone you have fallen out of love with or have little in common with is something you could really do for very long. It might have been easier in times or cultures where people expect less of marriage, but nowadays we expect to settle with someone we love, respect, like and can have fun with.

It’s this that is the myth I think. It allows the parents to end their relationship and move on to the next guilt free, they even tell themselves it’s what a good parent would do.

Sorry I tried to quote tiny and it didn’t work!

I'm split on this -
My Parents split up when I was about 10. As a child I was totally oblivious to any tension but my mum is very clear that my father was emotionally abusive. I partly give her huge credit for hiding that from me.
However that split meant that my life then plunged into a shit storm of disaster including an abusive step father, moving away from my home, a repossessed house during my A levels (I lived with a 'friend'), failing my A levels and much unhappiness. I resent that very much still becuase it has shaped my life and emotions.
BUT - my parents were not suited, at all, and who knows whether I would have noticed/become more aware of the tensions as I grew older.
I have a good relationship with my dad now but ti was shaky for a while.

So, in short, I'm torn!

Everything is relative. There is always a worse situation I guess. It depends how much you value freedom (and I mean freedom to run your life, not sexual freedom).

I think if you value yourself and feel empowered though, you'll try and move forward not just tread water in a dead marriage.

People revere bad and dead marriages and that is their mistake. A good team, a happy family unit, that benefits a child, but growing up in a tense façade will bring its own issues.

If you believe you could split up amicably then do it. Be amicable.

I always think a better way to frame this viewpoint is to consider one of the parents is your child.

Would you honestly want your daughter or son to stay with someone they no longer loved just because they had children together? Or would you rather they found a new partner and had another chance at a happy fulfilling relationship?

I absolutely was happier with my parents living apart than them being together - although as you say they did have an abusive relationship and so it's not the same as two people who remain amicable. However, I do agree with your point about new relationships being confusing for the children involved. My father pretty much introduced me a new woman every 6 months for a while, none of whom seemed to like me very much (although he has now settled with an amazing woman who I am so glad is my step-mum) whilst my mother entered into another abusive relationship that she remains in now and my step-dad is a horrible man who was vile to me when I lived with them.

On the other hand I know people who have had their parents split up and gone on to have wonderful relationships and remained amicable with each other and those people were far happier with their parents separated so it can be done, I just firmly believe that any future relationships should be introduced to the children very, very carefully.

@talesfrommyancestors

It’s this that is the myth I think. It allows the parents to end their relationship and move on to the next guilt free, they even tell themselves it’s what a good parent would do.

And the belief that any marriage, any family unit, no matter how inauthentic is better for a child is the myth that allows women to be cowards and pin it on the wellbeing of their children.

I have a friend whose parents stayed together for her (she's an only child). And I think it had a terrible effect on her - it was a massive amount of pressure, and guilt to feel like it was "her fault" they were together even though they were unhappy.
Her mum was super strict when she was younger, and she's kind of "gone off the rails" - we're almost 30 and she's still taking drugs, flitting between jobs, very unhappy in relationships, experimenting with sexuality etc...

Parents don’t have to be abusive or have lots of shouty arguments for children to be very well aware that their parents don’t actually like or respect one another.

I don’t think being in a dull relationship would be the worst thing that could happen to my son or daughter, any more than working in a dull job would be.

You’re actually offending me, OP, because my ex and I DID and DO put the children first throughout our split and beyond and it was in their interests. We’re giving them a positive example and that IS what a good parent would do.

If you want to justify staying in your marriage that’s fine. Turning everything upside down is hard. But stop generalising to other families, please.

I genuinely think it depends on the family and the people involved. Also I'm afraid at some ages DC don't always have the wherewithal to understand complexities.

My DC would tell you they want exdh , me , dp and nana living altogether. The most likely issue there would be nana and I killing each other at some point.

Exdh wasn't abusive but when we fell out of love the atmosphere became really toxic. We ar both nice people (I mean in the main...I'm less nice when someone drives 30 miles an hour on a 60 road in the outside lane). We co parent really well , there is no animosity. However the only two people who really know what it was like at the end of our marriage were exdh and I. It wasn't screaming and shouting but it was cold , very cold. We avoided each other , frankly the DC probably see us more in the same room amicably now than they did then.

You honestly can't comment on it until you've been inside it. No , of course my children would have preferred us to stay together , they are 7 and 4 , what child has the emotional maturity to say otherwise?

However they would have grown up believing marriage was about parents coexisting , polite strained discussions and separate lives.

It took a long time for my DP to be involved in the family in anyway. However now , whilst things are far from perfect (anyone who claims their family is perfect is lying) they see genuine love at home. A couple that has common ground, laughter and affection. They see stability and partnership. They also see that their father and I work together for their good. They know we talk and share stories and photos.

We have all worked very hard to give them the best option of it all. I didn't want my marriage to die nor did I want to uproot them. However I am absolutely sure they are seeing a healthier happier family dynamic. Do not underestimate how incredibly hard some parents work to make the home a healthy environment.

Toxic doesn't have to mean abusive and screaming and shouting but when you've lived in a toxic relationship that has developed form two normal "nice " people you understand how pervasive and unpleasant it can be for all of those involved. Trying not to be nasty but it's not really ok to make snap silly judgements until you have experienced it yourself.

The trouble with staying in a dull relationship is that you might meet someone else that you feel a spark with. That's why some people end up having affairs and justify it to themselves that they don't want to split the family up. It's cowardly in my opinion.

My married parents good marriage damaged me by the way. They support each others distorted narratives. They werent great parents. If they'd split up there would be less supported delusion.

They both collude in scapegoating me as paranoid which saves them having to confront their poor parenting.

And that is a good marriage. They have never rowed. They enable each other to blame everything on their kids