To think that children wouldn’t actually prefer happy parents living separately

[talesfrommyancestors]

I actually would like to be proved wrong here so it’s not a provocative title, but I do think it’s something of a myth that children would like their parents to divorce and to live apart.

My own experience is that when this happens parents move on to new relationships quite quickly and this is confusing and difficult for children. Then obviously there’s financial considerations and practicalities (living in two homes.)

I’m obviously not talking about relationships that must end because of abuse but the sort of gone stale relationships where parents are urged to split because the children will want it.

I agree with alloverthegrapevine
I read an article that discussed children who had 50/50 custody with each parent so spent half their time with mum and half with dad. It dicussed that because they were constantly switching between homes they never felt properly at home at either and the constant having to remember things to take to the other house, having to have 2 of stuff, constant changing of arrangements etc was actually quite damaging to their mental health.
People o know who have split up just because they weren’t madly in love anymore (as opposed to abuse etc) have all had lots of problems with thier children - bed wetting, doing badly at school, skipping school, pretend illness, regressive baby like behaviour. So I don’t think parents divorce is a relief to most children!

It does strike me that you almost never hear parents hold their hands up and admit that they made decisions on custody or blending families that were the wrong decisions for the kids and did them harm. I'm sure in most cases parents are being honest when they say the kids are happy with their set up but there must be others just telling themselves what they want to hear.

I think that's the issue I see in my work though Rainbow. Children, especially those who have seen their parents' relationship breakdown are incredibly good at persuading people they love all the extra presents etc when really, that's not what they care about at all.

Admittedly, I only see it when it's all gone horribly wrong but children love to please and children feeling insecure because of family breakdown, even more so.

I think parents and children have different ideas about what they “love.”

I think no one here is saying a child cant have a happy, contented and secure childhood with separated parents, having a loving relationship with both parents.

It doesnt mean the child doesnt think it would have been even better if mummy and daddy could be living amicably in one home as friends if not as lovers.

My grandmother once told me in confidence that she and my grandfather had a long period (10+ years) of their marriage not working. It was at a time when divorce/separation would have been socially frowned upon, and my grandmother told me they were determined that my mum & her siblings were unaware of the marital issues.

Having chatted carefully to mum over the years, she appears to be oblivious to any issues, and only ever talks of growing up in a happy home. It hasnt affected my mother knowing what a normal happy relationship looks like either.

Obviously it's different when people are in abusive relationships or really hate each other. But I think there are some instances with amicable splits where children would absolutely prefer having parents under the same roof co-parenting as friends, rather than having separated happy households.

Is the children’s happiness the only thing that matters? Last time I checked kids don’t get to make decisions

Snuggybuggy this is true. I have never ever seen a divorced parent say "I know my child doesn't like this/is less happy this way but I simply couldn't go on as we were."

It just never ever gets said and there must be even a tiny minority of situations where its true, even if in many/most cases a split is better for the child.

I don't think anyone's said the child is the only person who matters but a lot of people are arguing that it's better for the children.

Isadorapolly

This is true too. I think it would help everyone assess situations honestly if it was socially acceptable to be clear that the adults needs & wants do matter as well as the childrens.

I hated my parents separating, but it was the best thing they could have done, for them and me. Them staying together for as long as they did caused me a lot of lasting issues. Not an abusive situation.

I think the child must be put first isadora. Every time.

I think by putting yourself first you are happier therefore a better parent.

I think by putting yourself first you are happier therefore a better parent.

But would we be happier? I doubt it. It would mean I’d have to work full time and the children going to before and after school/holiday clubs. I’d be broke. We’d have to move to a much smaller house/flat with probably no garden. H would not be able to look after them the way they need - he won’t cook, clean etc. He works away a lot too and really long hours. There’d be no more holidays at all, no family days out, picnics all together etc. The children have a lovely idyllic childhood at the moment and would be totally baffled if we said we were splitting up. Life would be much harder for all of us. We get on fine, we just don’t have a traditional marriage. Yes it’s lonely, but the alternative is way worse.

And it’s a great line isadora, it allows you to do whatever you want because as long as you are happy it stands to reason your child will be. Unfortunately it is untrue.

Happy mum, happy children had some truth in that children do benefit from a happy mum in of itself. The problem is when that saying is used to justify shitty behaviour.

I grew up with divorced - they broke up when I was about 6-7, and I don’t feel I have suffered at all from it.

My sister left her partner, and father to her two children, about six years ago when the children were 5 and 8 and they have not suffered at all. My sister and her ex co-parent very amicably and everyone just gets on with it. The situation they were growing up in was definitely an unpleasant one and my sister was 100% right to leave him.

I don’t think people behave shittily on purpose. They genuinely believe it’s fine, the kids are resilient and love having two homes. I honestly think those beliefs are sincere. I just don’t think they are accurate.

it allows you to do whatever you want because as long as you're happy it stands to reason your child will be

The way I see it is children have their whole life ahead of them, their childhood does not dictate what they might go on to have and do, they have all the time in the world. Parents, sadly, don't. They are already in the midst of their life and if they don't find one that makes them happy while their children are young (so that's potentially a 20 odd year period) their life will pass them by and they will have wasted it being unhappy. With that in mind, ultimately, regardless of whether the kids would be happier if mum and dad sacrificed twenty years of their life to pretend to be happy for their sake, I just don't think they should get their way in that regard. It's too much of a sacrifice and, to be honest, not one I would want to model for my daughter should she go on to find herself in the same situation when she has kids.

Obviously the parents need to make the effort to make having separated parents as good as it can be for their kids, but the fact that some fail to do so is I think a separate issue to whether parents should stay together for the kids because they would prefer it if they did.

People staying in an unhappy relationship purely because they believe it’s better for their kids are always going to look down on people who do the opposite and are happy with their choice, because if they didn’t it would make them question their own choices. Same goes for the other way round I guess.

It never occurred to me to stay with someone I didn’t love just because my kids might prefer it. Maybe that makes me a bad mother but at the end of the day all we can do is our best. My situation is different to a lot of people’s so maybe that’s why it’s been easier for us but I would always encourage someone to walk away from an unhappy marriage and to try and co parent.

As for worrying the dad won’t look after them properly, I think this is why it’s important not to have children with such a manchild in the first place!

@talesfrommyancestors

I don’t think people behave shittily on purpose. They genuinely believe it’s fine, the kids are resilient and love having two homes. I honestly think those beliefs are sincere. I just don’t think they are accurate.

Well in that situation for me, it was fine, they were happier apart and I was happier they were apart. Just wish they hadn’t stayed together ‘for the children’ for so long!

People staying in an unhappy relationship purely because they believe it’s better for their kids are always going to look down on people who do the opposite and are happy with their choice, because if they didn’t it would make them question their own choices. Same goes for the other way round I guess.

I would never look down on anyone for leaving an unhappy marriage. I would support anyone to do so. We each have to do what is right for us and our children. I also do regularly question my own choices. That way I can always feel I am doing the best things for me and the children. The moment the atmosphere became, toxic, aggressive, abusive, snipey, belligerent etc I would rethink it as I do think (know) that witnessing that is detrimental to children. But if it isn’t. If you simply get on fine and it’s better for all of you for the time being then I think that’s a valid choice too.

There are plenty of people who take their time to get back to work, save, ‘get ducks in a row’ (the mn classic) who simply can’t just get up and leave immediately and if the relationship isn’t toxic or abusive, I think that’s also fine.

The argument of adults making themselves happy, doesn’t work both ways. I’m sure lots of parents who stay in abusive relationship say they are happy. My parents certainly would. They loved the fighting and the passion. But that made me miserable. So regardless of how happy it made them I wish they hadn’t been so selfish. My half sister is in a foul relationship that has royally fucked up her kids, but she says she’s happy, because she loves him. Give me platonic friendship any day over that horse shit. (Not saying it’s has to be either or btw)

And as for the man child comment - yes, I quite agree. But I have to deal with what I have now and it’s no good if you think your children may actually be at risk or not cared for properly, as I think is a fair worry for quite a few people.

Yes I think the man child issue is a whole other thread!

I couldn't disagree more, my DPs parents are in the relationship you describe they fell out of love a long time ago, no abuse, no shouting, but decided to stay together for my DP. They have never said it, but he knows it when he was 21 he begged his parents to divorce and be happy. They are still together. They gave him a very unhealthy perspective on relationships (so for example his parents never truly confided in each other and were closer to their friends). He had a LOT of therapy before we met, and he always says that he will forever feel guilty that his parents chose to stay together rather than find love, he says they wasted their life. Therapy has helped him see that it's not his guilt but its never gone. Based on what I've seen from him, I would never recommend parents stay together for their children, his parents are friends but they have caused a lot of damage to him. They are not horrible people they tried their best but really messed him up.