To think that children wouldn’t actually prefer happy parents living separately

[talesfrommyancestors]

I actually would like to be proved wrong here so it’s not a provocative title, but I do think it’s something of a myth that children would like their parents to divorce and to live apart.

My own experience is that when this happens parents move on to new relationships quite quickly and this is confusing and difficult for children. Then obviously there’s financial considerations and practicalities (living in two homes.)

I’m obviously not talking about relationships that must end because of abuse but the sort of gone stale relationships where parents are urged to split because the children will want it.

My life would have been so much poorer for not seeing them both every day, they were both very involved parents

We saw our DF every single day after the divorce. He came around to make sure DM was ok for money or needed any errands doing. It's been like this for over 30 years, he speaks to all of us every day to see if we need anything.
Basically they just couldn't live together.

I separated from my ex just 5 months ago.
It was amicable, and we are still friends.
But our relationship was completely dead. I know some people would say we should’ve stayed together for the kids, but I was utterly miserable. There was no love or affection between us, we didn’t argue or shout but there were passive aggressive jibes and nagging.
I honestly don’t think I could’ve lived like that for the next 12 years.
To me, it’s important that I am happy. I’m smiling and I’m actually enjoying my life for the first time in years. My children are happy, they see us both and we still all do random things together.
I didn’t want my children growing up and seeing exactly what a loving couple shouldn’t be.

I, as someone who's DM was in an abusive relationship, was very much happier when she kicked my father out for good. I have no relationship with him at all, but an extremely close relationship with her. She hasn't had a partner in the time since they split (over 10 years ago) though he's been married and divorced since. We've all been much, much happier in his absence.

Obviously, it depends on many many things, because every family is different.

And I didn’t experience splitting up. But as the child of two parents who ‘stayed together’, I don’t think it was great for me to watch my dad pin my mum against the wall by the throat and tell her she was going to taste the blood as he knocked her teeth out. I think I’d have probably been better off if I hadn’t seen that.

So on that basis I tend to think it’s fair to say that children can be happier with happy, separated parents.

I’m someone whose parents are still in happily married (I’m 30 now) and I wished every day pretty much since I was old enough that they’d split up. They just detest each other yet for some unfathomable reason have stayed together. It’s particularly upsetting as in my opinion it’s my father that is causing most of the issues (unpredictable, quick to anger, irrational) so it’s horrible to see my mother effectively wasting her life trying to fix someone who will never change and who makes her unhappy. I’m sure if they’d separated when I was a child I would have found it hard, but I’d deal with that in a heartbeat if it would mean my mother could have had another 50+ years of happiness. Love goes two ways between child and parent, it’s not all pure self sacrifice.

*unhappily

my dds love their 2 houses, 2 christmases, 2 easters etc

their father and i split amicably and have remained friends, the kids were 5 and 3 when we broke up and have never shed a tear in relation to it.

their father and i work as a team and ensure we help each other out. His dp is lovely and i am thankful that she is in my children's lives as is my dp.

we share custody so they get double the holidays, double the energy and i appreciate them more as i have time without them

I was only 5 when my father left, and yes I was confused and sad and yes he moved in with a new woman and had more children very fast which was also confusing and upsetting. But I vividly remember how horrible things were at home when he was around. He was a cruel angry aggressive man and our house was much happier once he'd gone. He continued to be a shit father every other weekend, and once he had his children with his new wife my brother and I basically stopped existing except to be in his way. I think we'd all have been much happier if he'd just moved out and cut us off completely tbh, he didn't want us there at the weekend and we didn't want to go. He squeezed every bit of court ordered contact he could out my mum but it was all just an act of spite towards her, nothing to do with actually wanting to spend time with us. I wish my mum had divorced him sooner and that we'd had no further contact with him after he'd gone. The idea of them having stayed together honestly makes me feel sick. Separation is 100% best for some families and a huge benefit to some children.

@talesfrommyancestors

A lot of these are clearly from abusive relationships though, where I agree leaving is a must. I’m really talking about two nice people who have fallen out of love, or discover they have little in common, or similar.

My marriage was that. No abuse. I didn't love him. We had very little in common. We had grown apart but were decent people.

It took me a very long time to make the decision but I knew I couldn't keep it up for the kids. I was becoming more and more unhappy. I was irritated by everything my ex did. I saw all the things I was massively unhappy with (he was basically my 3rd child rather than a partner) over anything positive.

I knew my children were modelled a very poor relationship. We didn't sleep in the same room, and hadn't done in either of their lives. There was zero affection or physical contact between us. I knew from here that it was likely they would have similar relationships as adults because it was normal to them.

When DP first started staying over, DD even asked me if he would be sleeping on the sofa as to her that was normal. They now see laughter, fun and affection as normal interactions between a loving couple and I don't regret splitting from their dad in the slightest. DS has told me I laugh more now and DD said I am much happier.

No parents are genuinely in a loveless, unhappy relationship that has zero affect on their children, whether they are conscious of it or not. Due to being so unhappy I was a grumpy, moody, snappy mother. Their dad was the same. He hasn't really changed as a dad from what I can see but I certainly have and it's doing my children the world of good.

I've not direct personal experience but an ex partner did.

In brief his father was a pretty wealthy businessman who had a long standing mistress. Whilst he had no intention of giving her up he equally didn't want a divorce because he relied on his wife to manage the home/children and also didn't want a costly settlement and have to pay his wife "his" money.

His wife at the same time didn't want to divorce because she felt that would let the OW "win".

So they just existed is this weird dysfunctional stalemate - with his father spending lots of time "away" but when present the atmosphere at home was apparently toxic with them constantly making digs at each other and making no attempt to disguise their contempt.

ExP said he and his two sisters spoke to them (together and separately) that they should divorce many times and absolutely hated their home environment.

When I dated him in my late 20's they were still together.....still trapped in the same dynamic.

It was incredibly uncomfortable spending time in their company if I'm honest and I always couldn't wait to leave. The loathing they had for each other felt like a very heavy physical presence in the air and on many occasions it was impossible to know how to react when they made barbed comments to each other.

I can't imagine how awful it must have been growing up in that environment and it's no surprise that each of the children got out as soon as they could (Ex said the only up side was it made him work hard at school because he was absolutely determined to go to uni and get the hell out and never live with them again).

So yes - sorry that's wasn't quite so brief I absolutely think there are circumstances where children both want and would be better off with parents who divorce.

I think I probably agree with you, but it is very personal. I think my siblings would possibly say something different.

I have very few, if any, happy memories of my parents together. To the day I die I will never understand how they married and had 3 kids. They are ao different in every single way. They fought constantly, I used to ring an uncle to tell him they were fighting so he could come pick us up. As an adult looking back it clearly wasnt great.

However, it was all I knew. The alternative, which is what actually happened was a nasty divorce, separate custody battles, selling of the family home and living in a much smaller house in a far less nice area and complete upheaval of our lives. The fighting continued, only this time with us kids as the conduit.

I'd rather they cut out the middle man and at least stayed together until the youngest went to uni or left school.

My parents relationship was no kimd of role model and at a young age that was perfectly clear to me. Them staying together wouldnt have swayed my opinion on what was 'normal'. Frankly I'd have had more respect for them for being less selfish.

However, like I say this is personal. I think at least one of my siblings would think the exact opposite of that.

My parents split when I was 16 and it was messy and shitty. Tbh it had huge mental health implications for me and I have spent years talking about it.
I never wanted the same relationship that they had prior to splitting either. My husband and I talk often about how our relationship is and what we both want or need.
He too doesn't want a relationship like his parents either. They stayed together and argue all the time. To the point where my dh recently sat them down and said things can't continue like this. They are working on things but we will see how long it lasts.
I make sure the kids see us being affectionate with each other and be kind to one another. I do think we could work more on how we communicate as I hate confrontation so find it hard to discuss if I have a problem. But we are working on things all the time.

@vintageyoda

I think OP would prefer an echo chamber for her own thoughts as op clearly isn't taking any of our replies on board.

This. Very few have agreed yet OP continues to argue her point and disagree and isn't really interested in opening her mind to the fact her views may not be right. Why bother asking.

If you're in a stale, loveless marrige OP, crack on with the delusion that it's better for your children.

It depends on the circumstances, but for us it’s only been a good thing.

Our kids spend 4 days at mine then three days at dads. He still pays maintenance and I bought a house outright with the money from the (diy) divorce, so no financial struggles between us.

We have both moved on and have had more children with other people and we both get on with each other’s exes.

The kids are all happy and I’m certain that had we stayed together for them they would be less so.

Well, I’m staying in my very mediocre marriage because of how badly my parents split affected me. As well as financial/practical reasons.

Whilst I wouldn’t wish bad on anyone, people saying their kids are happier etc, it’s too soon to tell. I hid all my pain very successfully as a child and it started unravelling when I was 18 and continues to this day on and off.

It all comes down to the attitude of the parents.

Children want to see their parents happy, whether this be together or apart. Frankly if this is the case, then the rest doesn't really matter. I know society strongly endorses the nuclear family, but all sorts of families work if people are positive and motivated.

I agree that bringing in a new partner early on is not the best idea. That is not to say that separated/divorced parents should live a sanctimonious pure life, in fact I strongly believe that people in their forties (to make reference to an earlier post!) can be having a damn good time ... just give it some decent time before introducing a new partner, ensure it is a healthy relationship and make sure the children are put first. After all, they don't have much choice in any of this.

I have not personally been affected by this but all my friends who have said at some point they wished their parents had stayed together

I have probably said of my parents that 'obviously it would have been better if they could have stayed together' but in reality, they were totally unsuited and should never have got married, let alone had kids. They definitely did the right thing splitting up, despite all the upheaval it's resulted in over the years.

@TheIckabog

If the parents continue to live together and parent together in a supportive and amicable way, then most children would want their parents to stay together.

That's a big 'if' though isn't it.

My parents tried that for years but were unable to manage it. There were no other relationships and no abuse or similar.

They divorced after many unhappy years when I was in my teens. It was far far better once they were no longer living together.

Glad I left when my kids were tiny. They have no memory of a happy family.

I guess staying in a mediocre marriage is different from staying in a bad or unhealthy marriage.

Im content and secure, but I guess my life is probably mediocre. Especially atm! I go to work, I come home. Maybe having a man who didn't undermine me (at the very least) here wouldn't make it less than mediocre. It just depends how bad the marriage is.

living together in a supportive way is unrealistic if you want to split up.

Most of the time, the reason you want to split up is because you find them so unreasonable, so unwilling to change, you find them unsupportive.....

The idea that they suddenly become reasonable and supportive and co-operative after you ''uncouple'' is just so unrealistic.

Struggling to see why you are posting? Are you trying to justify staying in a unhappy marriage?

I know my DC are sooo happy with 2 households. I am single (have been since the split 7 years ago) and dont plan to date until they go to uni. They see their dad loads and we are friendly and do all the school/birthday parties together. They have a baby sibling they adore.
Financially I am sure they end up better off as I have built my career up - prob would have stayed a SAHP if we’d stayed together. So in my opinion YABVU

I agree with OP and @MNnicknameforCVthreads in particular - my parents divorced when I was 8/9 and the subsequent shuttling back and forward between 2 houses and various remarriages/divorces/blended families that followed have had a long-lasting impact on me. I had no idea whatsoever my mother was unhappy but she left my father and it blew up my life.

I was a very anxious child but a total people-pleaser; even at 8 I knew how to paste on a smile and reassure everyone that I was fine and I loved having 2 lots of presents and Christmas and birthday etc. In reality I cried myself to sleep every night for years. I dearly wish she'd found it in herself to stay and I've sworn to myself that - despite loving my DH very much! - short of abuse / infidelity I will never put my DD through the same ordeal I experienced.

I must admit, this thread is depressing me a bit. Presuming that no one on this thread is recommending polyamory/affairs, are people here really suggesting that it's normal/expected for parents to basically give up on sex/affection/romance/intimacy, probably at some point in their 30s/40s and live the rest of their life with someone they kind of get on with at best?

I'm not sure that's a reasonable ask of a human being, and feels like that's a much more harmful way for a human to live their lives than to live with divorced parents.

I think there's no doubt that parents can really mess you up, but I remain to be convinced that it's better for unhappy parents to split.

I work with troubled teens and none of them live with both their parents. Now, of course, a lot of their issues stem from the horrors they witnessed before the split and those children, although damaged are still better off than they would have been if they'd stayed.

However, we don't see kids traumatised from living with unhappy but together parents.

We do see a lot of kids letting their parents believe they love the new blended family or only seeing dad at weekends, or having two bedrooms/sets of belongings who are in fact broken by it inside.

I think this is an important area for research but atm it's not popular to suggest kids needs both parents at home, so there's no real will to do the research properly.

I was part of a very small scale and unscientific study on teenage suicide. Although actually far too large. Our LA had seen a shocking 17 suicides in years 9-13 in a period of 18 months and schools were under pressure to find out what they should be doing differently to prevent it. Without any additional funding or resources they set about trying to establish any links between the tragic children.

Among the 17 children there was a real mixture of popular and not so popular, academic and struggling, sporty and not, poor and affluent. The only things they all (every single one of the 17!) had in common were some previous self harm and that their parents had split and both parents were very much still involved. The children were spending significant time with both parents in apparently successful and amicable arrangements.

Now, of course, the correlation doesn't prove cause and there's a lot more work to be done. Very many children live in these kinds of arrangements and don't commit suicide but it is a significant pattern worthy of further research that won't be funded because it would be politically unpopular.

I know from my other work that children are often not as happy as they appear to be about having two bedrooms, no matter how lovely they are and that even in the most amicable arrangements children do feel very torn and disloyal to one parent or the other.