AIBU to be furious at DH over hidden debt?

[Worrywart2020]

I’ve NC for this as am fairly confident DH’s family prowl MN and I don’t want to add fuel to the family gossip flames

My DH and I have been talking at some length about moving house, We have decided we would like to do so before it would alter DC’s schooling and don’t want to cause more upheaval by moving once settled

So we’ve been doing the usual, scouting Rightmove and having a look around desired areas - We’ve even been to look at a few houses (drive by areas not internal viewing due to Covid) and have found a house we really love (but would be at our top top stretching ourselves budget unless we could somehow persuade them to take 10K less which is obviously unlikely)

However today we have hit a full brick wall, Discussing mortgages with DH and I decided to use a mortgage calculator to see realistically if/what we could borrow and go from there - Turns out DH has CONSIDERABLY more debt than I had realised, I knew he had previously gotten a loan to consolidate credit card debt etc but as we share the mortgage/childcare fees from a joint account (paid in to by separate accounts) I had no idea of the full scope

Turns out DH is nearly 50K in debt!
I have now point blank turned down the idea of moving because realistically we couldn’t afford anything more than we pay now as DH earns significantly more than me (although we both work FT) and his credit score is ultimately crippled and he is now moping around saying he feels awful and didn’t know how to tell me etc

I feel so so angry and honestly heartbroken, I don’t know why he has hidden this from me for so long

He doesn’t seem to realise the massive implications this has on both of us and has said that he felt unable to tell me because “he should be able to provide for his family” but that he’s been drowning in debt taking out loan and loan for years

I know it would be unreasonable of me to really lose my temper with him but right now I am so so angry with him so I’ve come upstairs under the guise of tidying to just get away from him

I don’t know what to do, I haven’t a clue where to start - Our house is in no danger, we have never defaulted on a mortgage payment (I have checked) and as far as the bank are concerned are model customers, I could pick up the slack there if it did become an issue but there is no possibility of me being able to pay off all of his bills

AIBU to be utterly furious? Or really should I just accept the situation for the next few years at least (and know we will have to significantly tighten our belts to weather this storm) without protest?

My DH (although clearly useless with money) is genuinely a lovely guy, a good father and we have a very happy marriage - but right now I could murder him, I feel too that I’m more angry with the situation because we had been actively looking online at properties and (I thought) planning our future together- all the while he’s been hiding this massive issue rendering the whole thing IMPOSSIBLE!

(I feel the need to point out too that there is no seedy undergoing here, the debt has been accrued by seemingly living far beyond his means for years but without showing this to me, neither of us have had pay rises in the last 6 years and the outgoings have gradually taken over the incoming)

YANBU OP I would be absolutely furious. All that planning for him to scupper it at the last minute when he knew all along you couldn't.

He is in denial if he can go through a fantasy of being able to move whilst having so much debt. People who have issues with money, in my experience, always carry this.

Have you discussed options where you control the finances in the future?

What was the money spent on? You say living beyond ‘his’ means but you share expenses.
Can anything be done about the debt? If he has an expensive car, can he sell it and buy a cheaper one? Do you have joint savings that would be better spent paying off debt in order for you to both move?
A friend of mine was in a similar situation and she took control of the household finances to the extent of giving her DH ‘pocket money’. It wouldn’t be for me but it worked for them and they are no longer in debt. They have one credit card between them that she keeps possession of at all times.

You are not unreasonable to be angry
I would take a bit of time to be angry
Decide if the deceit is deal breaker for you
If you decide you you want to stay together,then when you calm down sit Down together and work out a proper budget,including something toward the debt
Can either of you increase earnings
Anything you can sell
Where can you cutback
Do you need help from eg a debt counselling service
You need to work together as a team
If he doesn’t have any secret vices eg gambling and the money has been spent propping up your lifestyle then surely you should have been aware of this

No expensive cars (although his is on finance but less than £100 a month) things like he would always pay for meals out or special occasions/mini breaks etc but as he earns more than me so I stupidly did not question this

We split the household bills but unequally due to the wage difference (he pays utilities and council tax) whilst I pay for the food shopping and for anything DC need regarding clothes/activities etc
This way had (I believed) always suited our family but I see now this is not the case

I do believe he is massively in denial yes as all of the properties he has suggested have been more expensive than our current home and in more affluent areas

I think I will need to seize control of the family finances yes, I honestly am not sure how best to go about this though - should I have all bills moved to come from the joint account? Or to have his wages paid in to there?

I don’t feel I could dictate pocket money etc (not because he wouldn’t allow it because honestly I think at this moment of reality he has seen he cannot manage alone) but because that isn’t really something I would want in a marriage - I would not accept it from him if the roles were reversed

I think its important to find out where the money has gone. Has he got an underlying addiction ? Gambling problems

Oh dear.

Assuming that you want to stay married to him and help him work through it, you first need to work out whether this is a ' him overspending on crap, made worse by repeated debt consolidation leading to paying interest on interest' problem, or that your basic essentials aren't covered by your income, or it may be a bit of both.

The best thing to do would be to look at Moneysaving Expert's debt help section together and go through everything that is relevant.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/loans/debt-help-plan/

Depending on how much scope you have to cut back, the solution will be somewhere between just cutting back a bit on non essentials through to a more formal solution if he's at the stage where he's paying so much interest each month that any payments he makes aren't making significant inroads into the debt.

But if it's mostly due to him being useless with money, the easiest thing might be to manage the family money yourself and him not have access to anything except a small affordable amount of personal spending money until you're well on the way to being debt free and he's maybe learned his lesson/made positive steps to manage his money sensibly.

No gambling, alcohol or substance addictions of any kind

I have asked where the money has gone etc but he swears it’s just a steady increase of bills etc mixed with literally everything he has bought/paid for over the last few years being put onto credit cards

I would want evidence its just gone on living expenses. That is an awful lot of money to burn through. Have a look at the credit card statements

@BarbaraofSeville

Oh dear.

Assuming that you want to stay married to him and help him work through it, you first need to work out whether this is a ' him overspending on crap, made worse by repeated debt consolidation leading to paying interest on interest' problem, or that your basic essentials aren't covered by your income, or it may be a bit of both.

The best thing to do would be to look at Moneysaving Expert's debt help section together and go through everything that is relevant.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/loans/debt-help-plan/

Depending on how much scope you have to cut back, the solution will be somewhere between just cutting back a bit on non essentials through to a more formal solution if he's at the stage where he's paying so much interest each month that any payments he makes aren't making significant inroads into the debt.

But if it's mostly due to him being useless with money, the easiest thing might be to manage the family money yourself and him not have access to anything except a small affordable amount of personal spending money until you're well on the way to being debt free and he's maybe learned his lesson/made positive steps to manage his money sensibly.

I think it is absolutely a case of overspending on crap then repeated debt consolidation

A similar thing happened to me, although we weren't house hunting. DH was in over 10k of debt that I had no idea about. I'm really debt adverse. He was just spending beyond his means despite a very good salary. He admitted it, accepted he had an alcohol problem (which was where a lot of the money had gone). I was furious about the lies. But 7m on he is alcohol free and repaying the debt and my fury has gone.

To feel rage is a normal reaction and you should allow yourself to feel it. When you're ready you can move on.

@DrManhattan

I would want evidence its just gone on living expenses. That is an awful lot of money to burn through. Have a look at the credit card statements

I think you’re right I will access online statements

I too would delve a little deeper into where the money has gone. Nearly 50k is a HELL of a lot of money for mini breaks etc; You already know he's capable of deceit.

10k sounds like a lot
And it is
But over say 5 years it is under 200 a month so say a couple of meals out a month
My DH was a bit like this when we were first together,booking fancy restaurants etc and buying me ‘treats’
Ok at the dating stage but Eventually I had to say that now we were a couple I was essentially paying for half of these and every £200 meal was another month until we could afford to buy a house

I would want evidence its just gone on living expenses. That is an awful lot of money to burn through

But really quite easy to do without leading an obviously luxurious lifestyle.

The annual interest on £50k at an average of 10% (assuming some is loans, which could be cheaper, but possibly not by much, with some credit cards, conservative interest rate estimate 20%) would be £5k, so quite a bit of that £50k could be interest. Say £10k.

So he's overspent £40k over 6 years - assuming that's when the problem started, it could have been more, could have been less.

That's about £130 per week, which sounds like a lot, but it could simply be one family meal out at somewhere like Pizza Express, a few coffees and lunches while at work and a nicer mobile phone contract than is affordable on the money available.

But if he's used to spending freely without thought, it's going to take a huge change in mindset to turn it around.

From personal experience I would bet it's a gambling addition. They ate very good liars and you would have no idea! I would ask to see his personal account statement asap.

Are you dipping into joint finances to supplement additional needs/wants of the children?

I can see how easily it can happen tbh.

You are going to have to take control.

I have asked where the money has gone etc but he swears it’s just a steady increase of bills etc mixed with literally everything he has bought/paid for over the last few years being put onto credit cards

Which only works if his income is less than your bills and council tax. Is it?

I've been here. There may be even more debt and he may be keeping other things from you.

You need to find out what he is spending money on.

I have been in this exact situation, even a similar amount of debt.

Like you, I was furious. For quite a long time. So I don't think you need to suppress that anger completely, because he needs to know how angry you are at his irresponsibility and also you need to channel that anger into creating a better financial situation.

If you are both good earners, then this is a fixable thing, BUT only if he is willing to be completely honest, get good advice (from debt counsellors/financial advisors) and you are prepared for the fact that some of your money for the next few years will be repaying this debt and that will make you cross. However, the fact you have never defaulted on your mortgage is great- let's hope he never defaulted on his loan payments, which he might have done.

You need to get him to stop hiding his head in the sand and be really upfront. Be honest with him that you are pissed off, that you won't just get over it easily because it is ruining your plans for the next few years and causing you stress, but also, if you feel like this, that you will help him and work as a family to correct this and move forward.

Practically, you need to get him or you can yourself speak with a Debt Counselling agency such as StepChange or National Debtline, there's another one I can't think of- Martin Lewis' website is brilliant for all things financial and you can't go far wrong with his advice. There's also a Debt forum, again, I can't remember the name but people post there for advice and support in getting out of debt. There are different options for you, the most simple is to list his debts, list your income and outgoings and negotiate a debt repayment plan with all of the lenders, some counselling charities will support with this or you can even do it yourself.

You just need to educate yourself, and get your husband to educate himself on what are priority debts, what the options are for repayment (I mean it doesn't sound like you need to go bankrupt or anything), and then start working on that. Knowledge is power in this situation.

It is quite easy to build up a really large debt, I was about 7k in overdraft and had a 15k loan- that's 21k before anything else and it wasn't even me that was much in debt! Add in a few credit cards on top of that of a few thousand each...and his debt repayments each month will have outstripped his ability to pay back the capital. It's called a debt spiral and he needs help to get out of it.

Honestly I don’t think it is anything like that

I trust him, he is very really anywhere without myself of DC and he definitely has no alcohol or substance issues
I strongly suspect the statements will show random crap from amazon/takeaways/meals out etc - we don’t have a particularly extravagant lifestyle but clearly there has been a massive overspend from him and a huge oversight from me on what we are able to afford etc

It’s not just spending 50k it’s spending 50k on top of his actual disposable income. Surely you would have noticed the disparity?
Sorry OP but something doesn’t add up, unless he’s earning a lot less than he told you he is?

@Illdealwithitinaminute

I have been in this exact situation, even a similar amount of debt.

Like you, I was furious. For quite a long time. So I don't think you need to suppress that anger completely, because he needs to know how angry you are at his irresponsibility and also you need to channel that anger into creating a better financial situation.

If you are both good earners, then this is a fixable thing, BUT only if he is willing to be completely honest, get good advice (from debt counsellors/financial advisors) and you are prepared for the fact that some of your money for the next few years will be repaying this debt and that will make you cross. However, the fact you have never defaulted on your mortgage is great- let's hope he never defaulted on his loan payments, which he might have done.

You need to get him to stop hiding his head in the sand and be really upfront. Be honest with him that you are pissed off, that you won't just get over it easily because it is ruining your plans for the next few years and causing you stress, but also, if you feel like this, that you will help him and work as a family to correct this and move forward.

Practically, you need to get him or you can yourself speak with a Debt Counselling agency such as StepChange or National Debtline, there's another one I can't think of- Martin Lewis' website is brilliant for all things financial and you can't go far wrong with his advice. There's also a Debt forum, again, I can't remember the name but people post there for advice and support in getting out of debt. There are different options for you, the most simple is to list his debts, list your income and outgoings and negotiate a debt repayment plan with all of the lenders, some counselling charities will support with this or you can even do it yourself.

You just need to educate yourself, and get your husband to educate himself on what are priority debts, what the options are for repayment (I mean it doesn't sound like you need to go bankrupt or anything), and then start working on that. Knowledge is power in this situation.

It is quite easy to build up a really large debt, I was about 7k in overdraft and had a 15k loan- that's 21k before anything else and it wasn't even me that was much in debt! Add in a few credit cards on top of that of a few thousand each...and his debt repayments each month will have outstripped his ability to pay back the capital. It's called a debt spiral and he needs help to get out of it.

Thank you! This is great advice and I will definitely start doing this

He has completely buried his head in the sand, from what I can see there are multiple loans and several credit cards

Holy fuck OP I'd be mortified and contemplating the future of the marriage if I found out my (non-existent) dh hid £50k of debt from me.

That is a life changing level of debt (not including mortgage), which sounds unmanageable for you to manage without a lot of support, intervention and cutting right back to basics.

I agree with the pp that suggested Martin Lewis website. You need to find out every penny of his debt, who it's to, how much is outstanding and what the interest rates are.

Cut up the credit cards until you can figure out if there is one that can offer you the best (zero?) rate for balance transfers. Not a single penny to be spent on cards until further notice.

Absolute financial clarity. List all your household bills and have everything going in and out of the joint account. Set a budget for groceries. Renegotiate all your utility bills if possible. Cancel any contracts you can (gym, music etc), downgrade those you're tied into until you can cancel (sky, mobiles etc).

If you're going to see this through OP then I think you're going to have to accept that you will need to take over all family financials.

I don’t feel I could dictate pocket money etc (not because he wouldn’t allow it because honestly I think at this moment of reality he has seen he cannot manage alone) but because that isn’t really something I would want in a marriage - I would not accept it from him if the roles were reversed

NO POCKET MONEY. He needs to account for every penny. You wouldn't accept it if roles were reversed but you're OK with him putting the family £50k in debt? He has proven he can't control his spending with NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT so yes, he can live without any spending for a while to show willing. Packed lunches, home cooking for the foreseeable future, free days out etc.

No short breaks. No holidays. Not a biggie this year due to covid but I wouldn't be planning going on a plane for a good while.

Some things you will need to budget extra for for the dc, others you can live without or borrow/get second hand.

He got you both into this mess, he needs to acknowledge and accept that it's going to be a very long, and very very hard task to get out of it.

Holy fuck, £50k is half my outstanding mortgage ffs, good luck op

I’ll be honest, we’ve been through this a few years back, though on a smaller scale.
And whilst we’ve come out of it without any further heavy implications, he does slip back into his old ways occasionally, when I forget to keep an eye on things. And yes, before anybody says it’s ridiculous I have to do so, I’m aware you may feel that way but we’ve seen a councillor and we know it works best for us, though it’s tiring for me at times.

Just as you say OP, my DH is also a wonderful husband, father and person in general, and we’re happy together, and the hidden debt felt like a horrible betrayal. He felt like he should be able to get anything and everything DCs and I want, so unbeknownst to me used CC after CC.
He does come from a fairly well off family, so we think he got used to certain things and a certain lifestyle, but hasn’t got the bank balance to roll it.

The first thing to do is get all bank/CC/loan statements, all open accounts that have anything to do with credit and your car finance agreement. Once you have all of them, you need to plan a timeline of when things should, and need to be paid off by, and you will likely have to have payments come out of your account or start keeping a watch on his. I’d get him to possibly think about talking to somebody about his spending, and the hiding it from you, we found couple’s counselling helped a lot.

If you ever need to talk you’re welcome to DM me, it’s horrible and the feeling you get in the pit of your stomach is awful, but you can get through this if you want to.