AIBU to be furious at DH over hidden debt?

[Worrywart2020]

I’ve NC for this as am fairly confident DH’s family prowl MN and I don’t want to add fuel to the family gossip flames

My DH and I have been talking at some length about moving house, We have decided we would like to do so before it would alter DC’s schooling and don’t want to cause more upheaval by moving once settled

So we’ve been doing the usual, scouting Rightmove and having a look around desired areas - We’ve even been to look at a few houses (drive by areas not internal viewing due to Covid) and have found a house we really love (but would be at our top top stretching ourselves budget unless we could somehow persuade them to take 10K less which is obviously unlikely)

However today we have hit a full brick wall, Discussing mortgages with DH and I decided to use a mortgage calculator to see realistically if/what we could borrow and go from there - Turns out DH has CONSIDERABLY more debt than I had realised, I knew he had previously gotten a loan to consolidate credit card debt etc but as we share the mortgage/childcare fees from a joint account (paid in to by separate accounts) I had no idea of the full scope

Turns out DH is nearly 50K in debt!
I have now point blank turned down the idea of moving because realistically we couldn’t afford anything more than we pay now as DH earns significantly more than me (although we both work FT) and his credit score is ultimately crippled and he is now moping around saying he feels awful and didn’t know how to tell me etc

I feel so so angry and honestly heartbroken, I don’t know why he has hidden this from me for so long

He doesn’t seem to realise the massive implications this has on both of us and has said that he felt unable to tell me because “he should be able to provide for his family” but that he’s been drowning in debt taking out loan and loan for years

I know it would be unreasonable of me to really lose my temper with him but right now I am so so angry with him so I’ve come upstairs under the guise of tidying to just get away from him

I don’t know what to do, I haven’t a clue where to start - Our house is in no danger, we have never defaulted on a mortgage payment (I have checked) and as far as the bank are concerned are model customers, I could pick up the slack there if it did become an issue but there is no possibility of me being able to pay off all of his bills

AIBU to be utterly furious? Or really should I just accept the situation for the next few years at least (and know we will have to significantly tighten our belts to weather this storm) without protest?

My DH (although clearly useless with money) is genuinely a lovely guy, a good father and we have a very happy marriage - but right now I could murder him, I feel too that I’m more angry with the situation because we had been actively looking online at properties and (I thought) planning our future together- all the while he’s been hiding this massive issue rendering the whole thing IMPOSSIBLE!

(I feel the need to point out too that there is no seedy undergoing here, the debt has been accrued by seemingly living far beyond his means for years but without showing this to me, neither of us have had pay rises in the last 6 years and the outgoings have gradually taken over the incoming)

I.E If he owes 5k on one card see if they will accept 2.5k straight away to pay it off there and then. The worst they are going to say is no, or they may negotiate to 3.5k (always best to have the most amount you are going to go up to.)

Be aware that this will ruin his credit record in the short term and probably mean they can't move house within the short to medium term as they won't get a new mortgage.

He's clearly very shit with money and he's one of those people who can't have a credit card.
Credit cards are the devil unless used responsibly and paid off .
I haven't read the full thread but for the love of god his debt & income is your debt and income your married with a child so you need to know all Ingoing and outgoings .
Me and dh have a joint account so he knows what I spend and vice versa it doesn't work for everyone but he's not a big spender nor am I and all big purchases are consulted .
But you need to sort the debt consolidate it into a manageable debt . What he's doing is paying small amount on the credit card and it's just going up and up .
Find out what you both earn and put in joint account with all direct debits and be bloody honest with each other about what you can and can't afford .

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned yet, but with respect to shared finances it can be a good idea to have:

• Joint account: All wages/earnings go into here and all family living costs come out of here.
• Joint savings account: A DD from the joint account goes into here each month or it varies depending on how you prefer to do your savings
• Individual current account each: A DD goes from the joint account into here for your 'allowance'. Your allowance should be equal and is anything that isn't family spending, you use it for things that are just for you.
• Individual savings account: Paid into from your individual current account if you want to save some of your allowance.

In your case you'd have to discuss whether the car finance would be from his current account or the joint account. And whether the loan(s) should come from the joint account or his account. It largely depends on what allowance you can both afford to give yourselves at the moment. My guess would be that it will be negligible if you want to focus on clearing those debts, so you'd want pretty much all debts coming from the joint account for now so that you have a clear idea about what the real cost is each month and it's no longer hidden.

Once you're clear of the debt you can then discuss what each person's allowance should be. The allowance should be the same for each person because all their base needs will be covered by the joint account.

For example my DHs phone contract comes from his account and mine comes from mine because he always wants the latest phone so is always on a £40-50pm contract. Where as mine is a £9pm sim only deal.

I'm not sure if the debt advice services will cover this or not so just thought I'd mention it.

OP, I have been in your husbands position
I am not defending him but I know that he must have been living constantly on a knife edge waiting for you to find our and it’s a horrible way to live.
There was no gambling or anything, just overspending for 5 or more years.
Please don’t see it as a reflection of how he feels about you, I absolutely adore my DH and the 2 things weren’t connected as far as I was concerned
You need to have total control over the finances, or at least oversight. He needs to know that he can’t overspend or borrow any more and he needs to help you come up with a plan on how to tackle the debts
We are fine now and I never want to be in that position again but when am email comes through offering me a CC or similar I do think about it for a mili second before deleting it

I'd really suspect gambling. £50k is ridiculous unless he was going nuts buying champagne and living a lavish lifestyle. Tbh you should have been a bit more involved in finances. You can't assume anything.

Sorry to hear that the debt is so high, OP.

If you can narrow down where the debt was run up, then you can take steps to cut back on those areas if it's possible. So if it is the case that your outgoings now exceed your income, time to cut back on some items.

I think you need to properly BOTH get a grip on where you are with finances. Look at incomings and outgoings, direct debits what you are spending on and get a realistic picture.

And part of that will be allocating out money to the two of you that you can spend that isnt allocated on the above.

Then you also properly need to look at the debt and work out how to pay off and consolidate this

People who think that there must have been another reason for the debt other than prolonged overspending are probably good with their money. As somebody who used to be in debt, I can assure you that it is very easy to build up substantial debt by over spending on things like eating out, entertainment and holidays. The interest rate on credit cards is so high now that a minimum payment is often little more than the monthly interest and not the principal.

I would recommend Stepchange www.stepchange.org/. You can use the debt remedy to work out a budget right through to arranging a debt repayment plan which would affect your husband's credit rating (no bad thing perhaps).

Debt does affect trust but it is also easy to understand why he let this build up. We expect people - especially those in well paid professional roles - to be good with money. If you are not, the stigma around debt can deter you from admitting to a problem.

This could be the beginning of a new start for him. Unfortunately, it might not be. I know someone who divorced her husband after he started getting secret loans again once his credit score improved. She had already baled him out and she felt she could not risk losing their house as a result of his spending.

It is a horrible thing to have to cope with, because it is about trust as well as the hopefully temporary end to your plans to move. There are organisations like Spenders Anonymous and Debtors Anonymous that can help people with the emotional need to overspend. That may help as much as the practical advice on taking control of the family finances.

YANBU OP.

I had a similar situation with my DH but luckily it was when we were much younger and we were living together in a rented flat but no joint finances etc. He not only lied to me about his debt levels, he also lied about his salary and was still taking out pay day loans at the time despite being in a DMP.

I was absolutely furious, heartbroken, honestly I felt so betrayed, so I am absolutely with you on how you feel. It was the lying, the secrecy, I just found it so hard to trust him.

I did, in the end. Like your DP mine is a lovely guy and we've since built a lovely life together, his debts are paid off and we have a joint mortgage on a lovely house. His family are notoriously bad with money though so I've since learned a lot about why he managed to get himself into that position. He will be getting absolutely no inheritance from any single relative, whereas I have already had some from my lovely grandad which helped towards our deposit. I am lucky, and I love DH so luckily we are both now lucky!

Sorry, tangent.

YANBU to be furious. I'm not suggesting you LTB, but I do suggest trawling through all his finances, work out a plan that sees him go without luxuries so he can put the money towards paying off his debts. I never took on a penny of my DH's (we weren't married at the time nor had DC) and whilst it meant I was the only one saving, it avoided any possible resentment.

And make sure he understands how furious you are, the implications, and that he mustn't keep his finances a secret from you, even if he's scared.

He didn't disclose the debt, he let you go along with the mortgage process and accidentally find out. And now he's minimising.
That has to change because its a terrible attitude and disrespectful towards you. Lying by omission is still lying.

I can see pp have recommended Step Change, this is who my DH had a DMP with.

Having worked in high net worth personal finance (although the net worth was often a misnomer, it was high income, high borrowing ability) it's amazing how many people manage to get themselves in this kind of debt just through "normal" over spending, there really doesn't need to be anything sinister.

People on really very good salaries who see their friends and colleagues having better cars, holidays, restaurants and borrow so they can have it too. IME it's driven by the status of keeping up with their mates and, sadly OP, the need to keep the wife in the manner she expects.

When someone who earns a lot over spends, it's on a £6000 family holiday, not a pair of Primark shoes.

We went through similar, 60k, had no idea until the baliffs turned up. We had to re-mortgage the house to pay off the debts.

I hate him for it because he never ever listened to advice and my financial future is fucked.

I would get some independent advice and deny him all access to any spending money. Step Change is a good place to start.

We have been in a similar position and for a similar amount. I felt so hurt and sick for days afterwards. In our case, the much smaller debt started before we met but because he was ashamed of it, he didn't tell me and it got bigger and bigger until I became aware of it. he only had a smallish income so it grew out of control very quickly and interest upon interest. When we would discuss holidays etc, because I was unaware of the debt, I would budget using his salary but of course, that wasn't what was available. I was able to take out a bank loan to pay off the CCs which was considerably cheaper due to more reasonable interest rates (half of his debt was loan and half CC).

Our bank said the only condition was that he had to give up his credit card. It's taken a long time to rectify but we got there. We have regular experian reviews, I have access to his bank account and I have a budget set out a year ahead of time. I now do all the finance stuff so I feel more comfortable that I know what's going on.

@amusedbush

When I was in my early 20s I went mad with overdraft/credit cards/catalogue accounts and managed to get into a £14k hole. I was in a hideous cycle of increasing minimum payments, which wiped out my salary and I'd then have to put household expenses on a credit card. it just spiralled so quickly and I really had nothing to show for it. I called StepChange and set up a debt repayment plan, which was the biggest relief of my life. It has been a really long road but my final payment will be April 2021 and I'll be debt free.

£50k is a huge amount and he shouldn't have lied but I also hid it from now-DH, who was furious with me, so I do get it. I'm not excusing it but I get it. That sick, panicky feeling will never leave me and it taught me a hard lesson. Aside from my car I have no finance at all and I now save for larger purchases.

He needs to call StepChange and get on top of this now or the interest and repayments will just continue to climb.

Thank you

OP. YANBU, it is a huge betrayal.

I know someone who built up £40K of debt. A family member bailed them out to avoid them going bankrupt and they ran the debt up again in 2-3 years and went bankrupt anyway and the family member was left with a remortgage on their house that had to be written off into the bankruptcy.

People in debt just won't face up to it and won't accept that they have a problem, like any other addiction. The person I know blamed everyone else for their problems, but couldn't see that they didn't need to buy the things that they were buying.

Once they start making minimum payment only, the debt can rise very quickly as most of the repayment just covers the interest.

I suggest that you take immediate control of all the finances, and you need to sit down and list everything that is owed. You need to list all income, all expenses, and then work out how much is spare each month to hit the cards. If you contact Stepchange they can help you with this.

Your husband needs to cut up all cards, only have a prepaid one like Revolut or something.

The fact that he is looking at expensive houses proves that he is not facing up to the reality of his situation.

I couldn't get past this, he'd be gone along with his debt, he'll never pay it off and you'll be liable for life.
Get rid of the useless twat and live life debt free, and know you can sleep at night.
he's lied to you and can't be trusted. What else is he up to?

I’d be furious but you love him and it sounds like he’s a good husband. I can understand him being worried about telling you it sounds like things just spiralled and he’s been trying to sort it. Realistically it is what it is and you need to plan to move forwards from where you are now. It sounds like you handled it really well. My husband used to be terrible with money and we had a few times where he’d run up some debts that we ended up paying off though in his case less than a couple of thousand. I agreed to pull together to get our finances straight but we also agreed that I would have full sight of all of our finances and be able to access credit card bills and his bank accounts too so it never happened again. We transferred all of our bills to our joint account and had both sets of wages paid into the joint account too. I then budgeted for every single expense after bills. We have a separate account for food so we can keep track of this as it’s so easy to over spend on food, all fuel goes onto credit card which is good for credit rating as it’s paid in full every month. I check the statement every month. I then have a savings account with a comprehensive spreadsheet so that we put aside a 12th of the money needed each month for car expenses, house maintenance, other house stuff, kids clothes, kids uniform, kids shoes, family presents, other presents, vets bills, dentist bills, Christmas, holidays etc. I sat down and did a comprehensive budget for each category to make sure it’s realistic and I update any spending for each category monthly so I can see where the money has gone and check we aren’t over spending / under budgeting for any areas so the budget can be adjusted accordingly if needed. This means by December all the money is there for Christmas etc. Finally we both then have the same amount of personal spending money that goes into our own individual accounts which is ours to do exactly as we wish to with no judgement. It sounds complicated and I probably spend 1.5 hours a month tracking it all but our finances run really smoothly. Previously I had far less categories and I found we were always going over budget but I started this system this year and it works brilliantly. I’d also have a good look at the Martin Lewis site and check that all your bills are on the very best possible deals you can save lots a month by switching mobile, phone, broadband, gas and electric etc. Worth also looking at car insurance, home insurance, breakdown cover, mortgage etc. Have a look at the Martin Lewis site too for advice on rebuilding his credit rating too. Also worth looking to see if you have anything around the house that you can sell on Facebook market place it soon adds up and can help to find extra money to throw at paying the debt off. Finally it may be worth talking to someone who specialises in debt to check he’s got the best possible deal on the money he owes as the interest on that amount will be huge. On the plus side it’s taken me a while but my husband is generally really good with money now. I hope you’re able to get a good handle on everything and get it all cleared so you can move in a few years.

Although reading other posts most women seem to stick with lying deceitful husbands.
Must have big knobs or something, lol.
Please OP have some dignity, you are worth more than this, if other women don't think they are.

He expects sympathy from you because he felt unable to tell me because “he should be able to provide for his family”? Meanwhile you're trying to suppress your entirely justified anger?

Meals out and mini breaks are not "providing". What bullshit. When do the lies stop?

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with feeling or expressing anger. It's a useful emotion: it tells us something is wrong, it allows us to communicate that to others, and it powers us to make changes.

The only time anger is a problem is when it is used as an excuse to hurt people.

I honestly believe that choking back your anger and hiding it is the wrong thing to do for both of you in this situation.

As others have posted look on money saving expert. There is a debt free board in there and you see a lot of threads on there from people in similar positions.

The first piece of advice you will get is do a statement of affairs, there is a template on there, but it’s a spreadsheet detailing all income to the house wages and benefits vs all outgoings - all bills, minimum debt payments, average monthly spends ie clothes, holidays, presents, hair cuts, petrol, school lunches, etc

Hopefully you can identify where the debt has come from and make some cut backs to get on top of the debt. It’s also a great time to go through your direct debits to check you aren’t paying anything unexpected or forgotten to cancel something.

I am sorry that this has come out of the blue and the shock must be horrendous but if it’s any help, I have read threads over a number of years where couples do get past these issues and can be caused by everything from gambling to not wanting to say no and being able to provide for their family and keep up appearances, or loosing their job for a bit and not wanting to admit it.

You will find help and ideas from MSE

You don't sound stupid. That tells me that you must know roughly what your combined incomes are, and what your domestic spening is.

If he spent an additional 50 K on your shared lifestyle/budget, you could hardly have failed to notice.

That tells me that the "lifestyle" he's been funding is way outside the one you shared and completely concealed from you, and he is STILL LYING to you about where it went. Possibilities are gambling, drugs, another woman or another family.

That's the mess you need to find out and sort out.

Do you know whether he has any late or defaulted payments on his credit record? That will have a big impact on how you solve the problem. If his credit rating is still good and only affected by the amount of debt, I would really try to preserve that as much as possible.

Likewise in this case I’d also be looking at no access to cards and just a prepaid card for his spending and an agreement that you can open any mail in his name. It’s such a large amount that you need full sight of everything and the assurance it can’t happen again. Good luck.

Something isn't ringing true here...
Your Husband has accrued £50k of debts, and cannot account for it??

''The increase in bills''?..No , that just doesn't seem right...
It sounds like he could indeed have a secret addiction..Gambling?..If it was substance abuse, you'd surely know.

He isn't spending on ''Personal services'' is he?...
Sounds unlikely, but a male GP we had was being blackmailed by sex workers....... A long time ago, he was married with four children at the time... but had a secret addiction to 'seedy sex' {it was all over the local news at the time}.
£50k is a huge sum to be soaked up just by inflation.

What a horrid shock for you.